Ben Franklin-those who trade saftey for security deserve neither. Rolling over for Bush is a proven fatal mistake, the press will find he now walks over them without playing coy. The school yard bully is far to use to having his way.

Oi! That smarts. We are doomed.

Cindy,

First off, its not saftey for security, its freedom for security. saftey and security is much the same thing, however, i know what you meant, so ill resond to that.

Please stop and think about that quote. I hear and read it way to often. We trade freedom for security EVERY DAMN DAY and are perfectly happy to do so.

We trade convicts freedom for our security.

We agree to get searched and scanned going into planes (anybody care to argue that we shouldnt have airport security)

We limit weapon ownership in the hopes of gaining saftey.

We impose speed limits. I cant drive 95 because it's not safe.

We do a thousand things that impose on our freedom in the name of security. The question is how much freedom for how much security. Do you want the speed limits to go away for the sake of freedom? What about traffic lights. Every time I have to stop at a red light, my freedom is restricted. You want to get rid of those too?

If you dont, then I guess you dont deserve freedom OR security, and can feel free to shut the hell up next time you lose one, the other, or both.

Not trying to be mean, but thats a really, really stupid quote. You cant have total freedom and total security. You have to trade.

Put down the general thought not the direct quote, therefore no quotation marks, excuse me. Thought this thread was about the first amendment and young people requesting to be spoon fed BS. Old Ben was a journalist back in the day, very curious about what he and his fellow founding fathers would think of all this. There is a big differance between petty, common sense civil behavior (stop lights, speed limits) and pre-emptive war. We've done it before-that doesn't make it right or legal. You are appparently a lawyer, the presumption of equal right under the law; life, liberty and the pursuit of happinss, ideas that sound good to me. A free press that seeks fact and reports it accordingly is one of the protections of that dream society. Pardon me for dreaming, I believe there was a better way (Old Ben must have thought so too, thats what he patterned his experiment on), but his goverment gave them a choice of killing them or learning this better way, then they killed them pre-emptively just in case they made the wrong choice. Why do you think Natives went for Wes Clark? Try decaf bud.

Lactar - a lawyer? Trust me Cindy, he doesn't even know what a lawyer does.

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Thank you, biederman. You just made my day. Say, why only 350 to Kerry? Knew it was a lost cause?

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