He does plainly point out he's a lunatic. It's like pulling a fucking string with these people.

These people are absolutely unable to recognize (and/or comprehend) what the Bushco Cabal has done to our country with regard to global standing even with our close allies. For many years now, we have been able to stand either with friends, or alone - and take the moral highground. We are better than that or as we often said, we are better than those who torture!
In the past 7 years, our reputation has tanked and like it or not, we live in a global community.
What does it say that our Administration is advocating torturing human beings for a crime that we have punished for centuries? What does it say for the Bush/Cheney moral compass?
Ooops - sorry!

one of the problems with these troglodytes is that they have water inside of their brain pans.

So, Bob, since you and many leftists, are against torture to keep our country on the moral high ground, you must be against killing babies, right?

If you support abortion, though, you're standing on moral quicksand.

As a progressive lefty (and proud of it), one thing I pride myself on is dealing with issues one at a time.
A woman's personal medical decision is between her and her physician, whether it concerns abortion, birth control, sterilization, or having her appendix out before it bursts. It is not my business or yours. Unless of course, you went to medical school and missed that particular class on definitive diagnosis.
The topic of the thread was torture - if you can't debate the issue without changing the topic, you obviously have no point.

---------------------------
GGTI wrote: So, Bob, since you and many leftists, are against torture to keep our country on the moral high ground, you must be against killing babies, right?

If you support abortion, though, you're standing on moral quicksand.
---------------------------

What the hell? OF COURSE I'M AGAINST KILLING BABIES! However, I support a woman's right to make her own medical decisions. I also believe that the Constitution of the United States guarantees a right to privacy. See Amendment IV and the Liberty Clause of Amendment XIV.

By the way, how many Iraqi babies died during Shock & Awe? How many since Mission Accomplished?

Bob: Thanks for the echo - this really isn't about abortion at all. It is about intrusion into medical decisions by politicians (see Terry Schiavo). If this was about medical care for themselves or a family member, they'd be screaming louder than anyone.
There is in my opinion, way too much intrusion into people's private business - and it is downright stupid to relate abortion to the torture debate (WHY are we debating whether it is right or wrong to torture people anyway???)

He should be directed to this episode of the Sarah Silverman Program:
http://www.comedycentral.com/motherload/index.jhtml?ml_video=103793

Let's call it a wash: You guys can rationalize away killing babies, oops, my bad, I mean "medical decisions", I'll rationalize extracting information from Islamic fascists.

You want to use morality arguments against the use of torture, but start to twitch when morality is used against you and your support of killig babies.

If I'm evil/immoral for not fighting against water boarding, I've got news for you skippy, you're sitting right next to me for not fighting against abortion.

Since they're water boarding the guys in private, everything is A-ok.

Let's call it a wash? You must be joking. Lemme guess, you're a middle class white male, yes? Well, with all due respect (which isn't much) get the fuck over yourself. Reluctantly (publically) speaking strictly from my own personal experience, (this is out of respect for Bob and his right to express himself) you really don't know what the fuck you're talking about. I have one child, had two abortions, and a couple of miscarriages. Trust me, a woman, if she’s not hindered by past experience, hormones, and politics, knows when life starts. And it isn’t defined by a trimester or timeline. There is a point where you feel there is another human being brewing inside you, not an organism. There is a point, when you may have a really hard decision to make, but the thought process leading up to it is not something you will ever understand, nor are you supposed to. The one child I carried past the 4th month was the only one I have, and before her they all felt exactly the same, in regards to biology. The ones I lost all caused mental pain, not because the organism was a formed human being, but because of the readiness my body and mind had for being a mother. My point is there is enough pressure and heartache that goes along with that decision, no one needs some uneducated male telling them what to think and feel. So you have right to your opinion, but if you think you’re going to come to Cesca’s site to freely press your right-wing bullshit, you’re wrong, again. To compare purposeful mental and physical pain and torture to making the hardest decision of any woman’s life, despite insincere or misguided assholes, the same assholes that would purposely hurt another possibly innocent human being regardless of the logical pleas from educated humans, is fucking insulting and absurd. Sorry Bob.

GGTI: Typical troll.
I am not rationalizing away anything.
Regardless of your own personal opinion, abortion is and remains a legal medical procedure in this country. It remains none of your business and none of my business what a woman chooses to do based upon discussion with her physician.
Outlawing a medical procedure based on one very biased troll's opinion opens the door to violations of everyone's patient privacy. Where does it stop? Do I decide you need to be castrated based upon the potential of you producing uneducated, illiterate unthinking trolls?

Torture by waterboarding has been illegal under the Geneva Conventions, and in fact the U.S. prosecuted people in WWII who DID IT.

The issues are not even remotely linked.

Fearmongering is a trait of the morons currently inhabiting the White House - when you cannot actually control a thinking population, you try to scare them. Fortunately our minds do eventually see that screaming all the time is a bit superfluous and frankly, I refuse to believe that torturing someone keeps me safe. It is simply a control mechanism that evidently doesn't work with a lot of people.

I pity the small minded non-thinkers who are unable to see the lies and misstatements that are used to control you.

Debating one issue with another is simply a reflection of the inability to actually deal head on with an issue in the first place.

Changing the subject doesn't work - it doesn't change things ... it simply makes you look even stupider than you did before.

inbno13:
I also think that GGTI is definitely a white male - overbearing, egomaniacal and obviously has a teeny weeny johnson to go with his big mouth.
Men cannot and never will speak for the experiences of women. The issues are not linked and never will be. They are totally separate.
The abortion issue is simply men trying to tell a woman what to do with regard to a medical decision that is protected by physician/patient confidentiality and HIPPA. No individual has the right to either tell, or judge, a personal medical decision made by another person with their physician.
On the other hand, torture should be viewed as simply thugs/bullies employing their physical "prowess" beating up people who cannot fight back to obtain bad/inaccurate information that has not been shown to make anyone safer.
Under the Geneva Conventions, torture is illegal. We have no moral high ground with that issue.
If abortion is declared illegal at some point (very doubtful), it will be a slippery slope until someone decides it should be illegal to have your tonsils removed, your nose fixed, your tumor removed, receive chemotherapy, treat your child for pneumonia or menengitis...
The trolls will attempt to interfere in that very personal side of your life, making medical decisions for yourself and your family.

basheert:
Exactly. Torture isn't about the torturee, it's meant for the population watching- just as much for "them" as it is for "us".

INBNO13:
I guess that GGTI proves that Bob has "arrived" if he's attracting trolls - although this guy isn't really even half-baked in terms of agitation! Aside from bordering on lame, he's so obvious that it's funny!
Torture is something we should be ashamed of...again it's a MALE thing - little boys who never learned that hurting animals or people never gets you what you want. I am ashamed of my country for stooping this low - and we will pay for this behavior.

Sorry, folks, no white male here, but I thought "progressives" didn't care about race.

Let's use Bob's logic, shall we? Let's see, if we condone water boarding, according to Bob, soon we'll be smashing testicles with hammers. Ok, then, well, if we're going to make "legal" killing babies, what's next, killing three year olds if they don't fit some physical profile?

Yeah, babies on the medical waste pile is such a wonderful example of how moral "progressives" are.

. . . and I love the, "Oh, yeah, well abortion is legal" argument. Wow, you're so erudite. Like legality makes something moral. There was a time when slavery was legal and when women couldn't vote.

You're a bunch of lotus eaters.

"Inbn". Huh. That's kinda of appropriate, given the number of dead babies you've put "in" the medical waste "bin".

Oops, there's that psychotic reaction again.
Really? I think you're completely full of shit. Try and make some logical sense so I can argue with you. Because I really, really want to.
Wait, I probably shouldn't fuck with you since this probably makes sense to you...
http://www.rickross.com/reference/a-abortion/a-abortion22.html
It's an L, smart guy. You see, when one is logical and thoughtful, maniacal idiots can't be a bother. I just feel sorry for the uneducated (you) and those that have to live with them.

And you're logical and thoughtful? Just because you claim it, doesn't make it so.

I think you're completely full of shit.
Want to improve the country? Leave.

Hugs & Kisses, lnbno13:

www.democratsforlife.org/

Ahahahahahaha! Thanks buddy. I don't need to discredit you, you're doing a fine job on your own.
I'm an Independent, fuckhead. And that site is a fucking joke and you know it.
I think we've found the lunatic author.

GGTI - Are you male or female?

I would concur with your self-assessment, lnbn013: you are, in fact, a fuckhead. Ouch, that could leave a mark! You better go get some ice or take another prozac.

Thank you so much. I'm watching a good game, my girl is fast asleep, I had a great dinner, and I have an eager idiot to absorb my external frustration. Thank you, GGTI. Sorry Bob.

Maybe children's services should be called, as there's probably a pretty good chance that poor child endures your "external frustration".

Jesus, dealing with you has become much like dealing with my two year old: just shake your head and nod, because they know not what they do, and they'll just keep going and going no matter how little sense they're making. You should quit while you you think you're ahead. You don't seem to be aware of how much you have buried yourself here. I love Bob and his site, and I don't come here to argue with man-children, I have to deal with a crazy two year old all day, so I come here to be with adults. This is my last post to you until you have a valid and thoughtful argument, because despite what you think, I'm pretty sure this site wasn't set up specifically for you to air your personal insane opinions (and cowardly threats). Now piss off.

ggti:
(pls notice small letters, referencing your IQ)

We have ruled out you are a man - and you certainly don't think like a woman.
Do you have the nerve to state just what you actually are?
Aside from being a probable paid troll?

By your logic, you have the right to interpret what is right or wrong medically? My goodness, you have identified yourself as a right-wing fundy with Kool-aid drinking proclivities to begin with.

How dare you set yourself up as judge and jury?

And I'll bet you carry a gun to make yourself feel big and strong.

If smashing 'nads would prevent people like you from spewing, I'd be all for that, strictly for medical purposes though. There wouldn't be two smaller pieces of medical waste better dumped.

Yes, only leftists are allowed to make value judgements, basheert (pretty small letters there, too).

"Crazy" two year old. Apple didn't fall far from the tree.

Wow, that took almost a full day to come up with? Try making some sense, apparently you didn't think your comments through long enough, maybe take 2 days next time.

Bob's right, you have no argument, none whatsoever.

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