And after going blank on a question, the idiot looked sheepish and asked, "Is this going national?"
YES, you moron. Everything is national now.

So they spent the whole night addressing a non-voter. Fucking awesome. /sarcasm

Hmmm, Joe the plumber does a press conference, but Palin wont? Irony anyone?

Looks to me like the guy is an obvious plant for the McCain campaign. However, they should have picked one a little more on the ball when it comes to business acumen. If a 3% tax increase is that much of a deterrent for him to invest in the so called business that he's worked at 12 hours a day seven days a week (I'm yet to meet a plumber who works that many hours or earns $250K per year - I come from a family of them - just saying)then he really has no business owning a business.

Joe the Plumber is probably a better spokesmodel for McDouche than Palin is.

Perhaps Joe the Plumber is auditioning for a role in "Nailin' Paylin."

I just watched the same interview (and rewound so I could record it) but he just came off as another Republican hack.

Trashing Social Security - "Social Security is a joke. I resent that I'm forced to pay into it. I should invest my money the way I want." Really? I guess he would've made a killing these past few weeks, huh?

Being American - "Why should I have to apologize for that? The US is the greatest country in the world."

Iraq - "I'm glad we're there. We liberated a country. Poverty stricken people here have cell phones. There they just have a pair of pants and a shirt." I highly doubt Joe has met someone who is truly poverty stricken.

And the fucker isn't even registered to vote?! What the fuck! Another distraction.

Yeah, no wonder he said he wouldn't say who he's voting for...cuz he ain't! I think that there's some confusion about the $250k thing--as a business making $250k (not necessarily profit), or as a person making $250k (gross income)? If he's making $80K a year, but his business employs 3 people and makes $250K a year...does that mean the business is taxed at 39%, not 36%?

Er, maybe it's just my confusion...

How can you go you're whole life and NOT be registered to vote? why do we care about someone so unpatriotic as to not give a shit about their responsibility as an American.

Maybe Joe the Plumber would be better served in North Korea, I hear you don't have to be bothered by all that pesky democracy over there.

The now famous "Joe the Plumber" ISN'T EVEN REGISTERED TO VOTE??????? Priceless.

Here's a link to a monologue by Craig Ferguson on September 10. He takes some pretty good shots at the candidates' families and the media. But about 3/4 of the way through, he talks about our right and duty to vote. Maybe someone should send it to "Joe the Plumber."

http://lateshow.cbs.com/latenight/latelate/comedy/monologue/video/20080910.shtml

Joe is all for invading poverty-stricken countries, but wants to keep our borders closed, just in case any poverty-stricken people come knocking on America's door...which he, incidentally, loves.

Groobie - If he's making $250K pre-tax profits (after operating expenses are taken) then he'd be taxed at 36% up to the $250K and then at 39% on the amount in excess of $250K. (That is what Obama told Joe in the talk he had with him)

The talk he had with Obama raised some good topics for the debates. Obama was able to address his health plan, his tax plan, the effect on small business owners, the rumors of so-called fines for not providing health insurance, plans for jobs, etc.
McCain discussed all those things generally & with arrogance, while Obama got specific and looked reasoned.
Joe the Plumber was a plus for our side or would have been if McCain hadn't said his name so many freakin' times.

>>I think that there's some confusion about the $250k thing--as a business making $250k (not necessarily profit), or as a person making $250k (gross income)?

I might be mistaken on all of this, but if Joe's plumbing business is an "S-corp" then the taxes on his business profits flow through to his personal return. So maybe Joe makes $80k in salary, but shows a business profit of $250k, he pays taxes on that $250k on his personal return and his personal tax rate would be 39 percent.

Naturally, Joe should be making quarterly payments throughout the year, and whatever he overpays would be refunded.

However -- and here's the lynchpin -- Joe should NEVER show $250K in profits at the end of the year. In other words, if he knows what he's doing, he'll spend down his profits at the end of the year in bonuses or equipment so his profits and, thus, his tax burden would be significantly reduced. Any small business owner who doesn't do this is kind of an idiot.

Nevertheless, if Joe does, in fact, show a net profit of $250k in a single year, his gross might be in the millions. I think he can afford to pay three percent more, don't you think?

Nota:
That was a great rant by Ferguson, and he is spot on. It reminds me of my late dad's passion.
My dad was an immigrant from Ireland (he came to the US as a young man in 1928). You couldn't meet a more fervent patriot, and he fully understood what a responsibility it is to vote... where he came from at the time, most people were disenfranchised.
He lived through the Great Depression, losing the five thousand dollars or so he'd saved up over several years (which was a helluva lot of money back then) when the bank it was in folded and there was no such thing as FDIC.
He was also a staunch Democrat. He said "anyone who carries a lunch bucket to work and votes Republican has rocks in their head."

This is even better -- MSNBC is showing McCain's new ad, with the tag "Are you registered to vote?
" They need to add "Joe the Plumber?"

They also even (shock!) showed Obama's new ad, incorporating McCain's debate line "I'm not George Bush." It's AWESOME! (What they showed, anyway...)

God bless him, Packy.

Here's the whole ad, Nota:
http://thepoliticalcarnival.blogspot.com/2008/10/new-obama-ad-90-percent.html

I read his plumber's license expired in 2002 on huffpost

if that's true....he's not even a working plumber!

But Bob,

If I read the captioning correct, Obama used the word revenue. That word confuses the hell out of people.

Your point is correct though: revenue is NOT taxed, profits are and so, as you said, if he's pulling in $250,000 PROFIT, yeah, that will be taxed at whatever rate it will be.

I think Joe was a plant and McCain thoroughly used him and abused him. He's an idiot. Most people who choose to be an LLC have been suckered in by many accountant. Just like an S-Corp, taxes, and therefore, liability pass right through to you the person.

If you're and LLC and something goes south, like the economy or an employee, ALL of your personal assets are up for grab by anyone. I don't care what anyone but an honest attorney has to say about that matter.

Being a C corporation is more complex but once you get it under your belt there is no more confusing your self with your business.

Now, grow up Joe and be a real business owner or shut off your stupid trap and crawl back under the rock they pulled you from.

You can check here

http://elicense1-lookup.com.ohio.gov/SearchCriteria.asp?

the only Wurzelbacher is a Lawrence...maybe Joe's first name???

@bob, @ceu, @FrictionSoul -- thanks for the explanation(s); good points all. And yeah, he definitely should be taxed an extra 3% if he's stupid enough to keep $250K in profits at the end of the tax year. Not an issue there. And it's true--words are important when it comes to taxes, and FS correctly ID'd my confusion--revenue vs. profits. (Hmmm, would Obama do well to delineate the difference at some point...? Naw, prolly too in the weeds.)

I think this was overall a plus for our side, especially since he doesn't vote. Pretty laughable/pathetic that McCain is using a non-voter as the centerpiece of his "comeback." Let him cite Joe's name over and over, it'll just come back to haunt him. The MSM will hopefully quickly realize that he shouldn't be quoted or paid any mind, because Joe's a dullard who "didn't reveal who he's voting for--why? Because, well, he can't vote." Embarrassing.

As a small business owner - and a Liberal - I'm pleased to see postings here from FrictionSoul and Bob himself about the realities of paying corporate taxes. Now, at the other pole of Planet Capitalism, it's sad to think that we are yet again in such poor economic times that any one would be happy to work for a knucklehead like Joe.

@ Hey Packy, did you grow up knowing all the great rebel songs? I love those old songs. Have my mp3 player filled with them (and other Celtic) right now.

Chucky ar la! (I'm roughly a 4th Irish with it being my most recent immigrant--about 5 gens back). My genetics war with each other--the rest are Scottish, English and Welsh. I wear a shamrock and a thistle around my neck and a Saltire flag on my car. No Union Jack. I feel more for the history of my ancestral victims than the ancestral oppressors over the centuries.

Sorry, off topic. Maybe Joe the Plumber is part Irish...

Looks like "Joe" may be related to Keating 5 family...this links to Right wing blog: http://www.eisenstadtgroup.com/2008/10/15/joe-the-plumber-wurzelbacher-related-to-charles-keating-oops/

Thanx Jimmy, that post and the follow-on discussion was a great way to start my day.

Not only is "Joe the Plumber" not registered to vote; according to the NY Times this morning, he doesn't even have a plumber's license! He claims that he doesn't need one, because he works for someone else, and yet he has dreams of owning the business. Yikes!

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/washington/AP-Joe-the-Plumber.html

ceu -

Thanks muchly for the link to Obama's new ad. AWESOME!

So much for McCain's "killer debate line."

Just another McFlunky talking out of his ass.

jimmy3d:

My thanks, too, for the link on Keating 5/Joe the Plumber connection. I read through all the comments to the post and was shocked by even more controversy surrounding "Joe."

Was he McCain's October surprise? "Joe the Plumber" and his concerns -- more McCain fraud - but that's no surprise to me.

Tomorrow's Headlines:

"Plumber Throws a Wrench In McCain's Works"
"Plumber Clog's McCains Tax Message"
"Say It Ain't So Joe! - Plumber Has Ties to Keating 5"
"Here's Yer Problem Right Here! Plumber Drains McCain's Chances"
"Independent Voters Repulsed by McCain's Plumber Crack"

your turn!

LiveFree - hilarious. Esp. that last one!

“Looks Like Joe the Plumber is Just a Floater – Records Indicate Lack of License”
“Doggonit! Plumber Floods McCain Campaign with Problems”
“Turns out Joe the Plumber isn’t Really McCain’s Friend After All”
"Joe's Plumb Out of Luck! Voting Registration is now Closed"
“Lizard McCain Left with Sewage on His Hands After Plumber Clogs Any Diminutive Shot at the Presidency that was Left”

Hmm…that last one’s a bit long.

Nice work Amers!

Now, can we safely assume there's a rewrite underway on that Nailin' Palin move to include a Plumber scene? "Oh, hello - Joe, is it? Can I get you a beer, or maybe a six-pack?" Boom ChikKa' WoW WoW!! "Ooh, Joe! That's a big profit you've got there!"

Update on the link I posted...it appears that the site I linked to is a hoax site...please don't spread it any further...http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=M._Thomas_Eisenstadt

How about "McCain's Presidential Hopes Flushed Down the Drain" or "No License? No Vote? Oh, No!"

another example of the "liberal media' jumping on every McCain talking point as if it were crack...

@JG

How about -

"Post Debate - MSM licking up McCain and his Plumber Crack"

sorry - made MYSELF sick with that one.

Sorry to inundate, folks, but this just in on the front page of the NYT:

‘Joe the Plumber’ Is Under Scrutiny

By LARRY ROHTER and LIZ ROBBINS 55 minutes ago It seems that he is not a licensed plumber, and his full name is Samuel J. Wurzelbacher.

“All contractors are licensed, and he does not have a license, either as a contractor or a plumber,” the union official said, citing a search of government records. “I can’t find that he’s ever even applied for any kind of apprenticeship, and he has never belonged to local 189 in Columbus, which is what he claims on his Facebook page.”

"According to public records, Mr. Wurzelbacher has been subject to two liens, each over $1,000, one of which — a personal tax lien — is still outstanding.

And his question to Mr. Obama about paying taxes? According to some tax analysts, if Mr. Wurzelbacher’s gross receipts from his business is $250,000 — and not his taxable income — then he would not have to pay higher taxes under Mr. Obama’s plan, and probably would be eligible for a tax cut."

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/16/joe-in-the-spotlight/?hp

Thanks Live - just clogged up my toilet with puke. Sigh...where's Joe when you need him the most...

Has anybody here pointed out that the state of Ohio has a lien on Joe the Plumber's house because he's delinquent to the tune of about $1,200 on his state income taxes?

Bloomberg: 'Joe the Plumber,' Who Dislikes Obama Tax Plan, Owes Back Taxes

...."Mr. Wurzelbacher is registered to vote in Lucas County under the name Samuel Joseph Worzelbacher."

"'We have his named spelled W-O, instead of W-U,' Linda Howe, executive director of the Lucas County Board of Elections, said in a telephone interview. “Handwriting is sometimes hard to read. He has never corrected it in his registration card."

LFOD - that was just disturbing on multiple levels. In that same vein however (if ya can't beat 'em..), how about: "McCain & Palin Up Shit Creek."

OH. MY. GOD.

from the same NYT blog post:

He went on, “You know, I’ve always wanted to ask one of these guys a question and really corner them and get them to answer a question,” he said, “for once instead of tap dancing around it. And unfortunately I asked the question, but I still got a tap dance.”

He added, “Almost as good as Sammy Davis Jr.”

Um, really?? Sammy Davis, Jr?? The BLACK entertainer? THAT ONE?

So, the election was hijacked by a non-union dumbass racist? Awesome.

We have met the October Surprise, and his name is Joe. Or maybe Samuel.