The issue with the LDS is the money. They threw gazillions into this ban and they should be stripped of tax exempt status because of it (and don't get me started on the southern Baptist church and issues and money and tax status--I'll turn red and explode). And the 70% of African Americans that voted for prop 8 didn't, for the most part I imagine, throw in a million dollar check with their vote. The Mormon church did. That's the difference in blame being thrown. Fuckers. Funding hate should not be supported by taxpayers. That's my 2c.

Democracy exists only to protect the rights of the minority.

If you say otherwise YOU DO NOT BELIEVE IN DEMOCRACY. It is as simple as that.

Would like to see Anderson out there protesting in his Pradas. Not sure how he can stay neutral in this debate.

Wonder how many people voted the wrong way due to the confusing wording of Prop 8.

Actually I do believe in democracy but it's not just for minorities. Equal rights for all & such, but the last 8 years have taken us far from it IMO.

Tony Perkins best buddy? Eric Prince! Yep, that is right kids the religious right has their own private army. You know just in case that Constitution thing gets in their way of running the whole world. Eric Prince is the founder of BLACKWATER. So if you plan on joining in a peaceful protest rally be careful because bullets my be fired at you from men with complete immunity to the law. I wish the left wing of this country had their own private army just to make things fair.

On a side note, Dan Savage rocks!

Perkins throws out his own red herring by trying to insinuate that allowing a marriage between two gay, consenting adults will give rise to crazy shit, like marriage between Catholic priests and alter boys, or marriage between some decrepit, perverted Mormon polygamist and his sister's thirteen-year old daughter(s). Perkins time would be better spent stopping heterosexual breeding which produces failed marriages, unwanted children, and, in general, anyone who lets the church do their thinking for them.

Tracy, Fuck Yeah!!! The only reason Perkins gives a shit about gay marriage is because it won't produce another donation in the offering plate. See in the world of crazy they only care about growing the church, just like a business. Two men or Two women can't produce children that will grow up and give money to Perkins, I mean the church.

I don't disagree that Dan Savage rocks, but he needs to learn how to engage in public discourse without trampling others--even if those others are SOBs like Perkins. You don't win people over by interrupting and talking over others.

The protests are all well and good, but what are they hoping to accomplish? The hate mongers followed the law and they won. I personally think the CA supreme court and the SCOTUS should rule this to be unconstitutional, but until that happens, the gay community would be better suited to protest in ways that will financially cripple others--playing drums in front of church does nothing.

The gay community typically has more expendable income than other groups, they travel more than other subsets of society. They need to absolutely ban tourism to CA and to UTAH. They need to ban the support of any business in Utah. They need to use what ever legal means they have to influence the loss of state revenue in CA. Withold donations to politicians. Withold donations to charities. Buy everything they can over the Ineternet from other places to reduce the taxes paid in CA. Make others hurt enough to get involved in this fight, get it back on the ballot and change the outcome.

Oh, and while they're at it, they should spread information about how the Mormons believe blacks are the spawn of Satan and how Satan and his brother Jesus are from another planet. Tell the story about the founder of Mormonism in every detail. The truth is far worse than any lie in this case. Push affiliations with the worst forms of LDS branches to the forefront and let them be judged as to who would be better for the family.

I'm nursing a pet theory that this is a public relations issue for the LDS. It seems to me that these issues are going to get trumped. The courts will overturn the propositions, and if the cases make it to the Supreme Court, I don't think the laws barring gay marriage will hold up. So what do they stand to gain?

2 things: 1. Standing in the conservative Christian community that views them with some suspicion and 2. Backing for Mitt Romney for a 2012 run.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

QT

Word of advice: never mention politics to the person cleaning your teeth. They might be from the other side. In fact, as Murphy's Law would have it, they are always from the other side. ow

DP, that is really good advice. I would imagine that same advice should be used during a prostate examine. Do you still have all your teeth?

You raise an interesting point camel. But I have to trifle with one point - the notion that protesting in front of churches and such, does nothing. I would say that what it does is get people talking/thinking about the issue - heck, it's been all over the news lately hasn't it?

The gay community simply does not have the ability to financially cripple those who seek to oppress them. Donations for "the protection of marriage" are solicited even in moderate churches. There are only so many of them, and there's only so much they can do by witholding their tourism dollars, donations, etc. The religious right cannot be fought purely on financial grounds - they have a neverending supply of cash that is replenished every Sunday.

On the other hand, protesting raises public awareness, which is the real way to accomplish what needs to get done. Like Dan says, it's gonna happen sooner or later - it's pretty much inevitable. But the more people are forced to think about it, the more likley they are to reach the logical conclusion sooner rather than later. When the problem is unquestioned assumptions, it can be fought back simply by forcing people to question their assumptions. That's how I think protesting, and people like Dan Savage fit into the picture.

I definitely like the idea of trying to simultaneously hit them in the pocketbooks though.

the greasiest,nastiest,and most biggoted of the wingnut nation is creaming in their collective shorts with bill oraly leading the (dis)charge
in an effort to attack "the blacks" and "the gays" simultaneously.they simply cant believe their luck.to them its the same as the clintons beefing with obama.they cross their fingers and pray real hard that they just destroy each other.

Rogect8: I guess you're right about protest raising awareness and so on. I get angry seeing these churches step in and use money that should feed or clothe people and insead they spread hate. It makes me feel like anything less than drastic action is not good enough. I also completely agree with QT about the Mormons trying to appear more standard-conservative-evangelical for future political reasons.

Here's a suggestion, gays across the country should start calling in sick on the 8th of every month from now on. I'll by God join 'em. This of course in conjuction with no air travel (today's bus protest) and so on. Money's the only thing that matters to people.

By bigots, for bigots: The authors of the Bell Curve took their research from other racist works.