I hope that the FISA part of that sentiment doesn't last...

And so it begins...

Really, dude, Obama ran on the most liberal platform of any candidate since Carter.

I tend to agree, for the same reason that Prop 8 failed. Newly engaged "Obamacrats" or Obama-independents like myself are likely to have not previously been engaged actively with the political process, and therefore have a tendency to believe what Obama tells us. Or - as was said on another site - we tend to trust Obama, even if we aren't fully in agreement with him (see: FISA).

Even some of the recent Gitmo/Torture stuff that's being talked about largely matches my expectations - every new president makes an adjustment on issues of national security when they have that first "talk" with the lame duck president, so I'm not surprised to see Obama moderating his stump plans, and I'm not mad at him for it - whereas some hard-left progressives are gearing for a fight.

QT

Travis Disaster - what do you mean by that? He wasn't as "left" as Edwards, nor Dodd. I think a lot of progressives want him to be more leftist than he is.

Which is not to say he's a centrist. I don't think that. I think he's progressive, but on some issues, he's more center-left than left.

Anyway - whether or not he is or isn't, isn't the point of the thread (and Lee can correct me if I'm wrong). Rather, he's talking about a certain segment of the coalition - a segment that isn't quite the same as the progressive wing. These are the folks who are engaged because Obama is the candidate, not necessarily just because he was the only progressive candidate left. That's a different motivation than the ideological progressives, and it's probably strategically good to know about it, because the progressive wing is going to want to push an agenda, and needs to know when and who is going to break from the coalition in favor of the president when their trying to get things done.

QT

Anyway, I meant to ask, Lee - what does it look like to you, not in terms of examples but in terms of philosophy (in broad strokes, obviously)?

QT

I think it's hard to say what it looks like until he starts governing and making his case a bit.

Part of this feeling I have is based on Obama's oft-repeated phrase about the 'smallness of our politics'. He didn't say the smallness of Republican politics - he said politics in general, which includes the Democratic part.

This phrase came back to me a few times during the election when I felt that the lefty passions from sites (that I generally like) such as Brave New Films and DailyKos weren't jibing with Obama's tone, style or substance.

And as QT points out, Barack brought a lot of new people to the party and they don't care about the same stuff longtime Democrats do.

A lot of young people, for instance, have zero connection to labor unions. Most people in newer industries have no union deal. I had to join to work at NBC and the union actually sucks a lot - no contract or pay raise in 18 months but has nicely redecorated offices and I have to pay $1200 in a dues a year.

So - people like me see the value in unions in an intellectual way but I have no warm fuzzies. And many people don't even see the value. Go down the list of 'standard liberal policies' and see how many are old school and outdated.

Lee - I don't know what your union policies are, but I'm in the much smaller Local One IATSE Stagehands Union in New York City (3,000 members) and we have elections every 3 years. I pay 4% of all my pay for dues which can come to a substantial amount. I attend 9 out of 10 meetings a year and try to keep in tune with what's going on so as not to be kept in the dark. I was also on the negotiating committee for the union when our contract was up. Sometimes a union is what you make of it, not that I'm doubting your situation, but if your officers are redecorating their offices with your dues, make some noise. Make a movie.

I sure do wish I lived in a state with good union laws. Then I might make more than nine dollars an hour at my demanding job.

Looks like our union is about to merge. I didn't mean to get off into a rant. Part of my unions problem is that unions have lost a lot of power, period.

In general, though, I'm saying there are a few issues that a 25 year old first time Obama voter wouldn't relate to.