Depressing is reading that Furniture Retail purchases ( which is my business BTW ) has fallen over 20% this year. I may not even be able to stay in business much longer, no less afford to pay for health care. We sure have some problems...

Sure, but would you prefer socialized medicine? I mean, in Canada, you literally have to die before they can treat you. That's how bad socialized medicine is. Yeah.
Actually, at the moment I think I'm sort-of insured because I'm back in school, but mostly I'm just hoping nothing actually happens to me.

Man...that is just fucking ridiculous. I love this country but sometimes it feels like this is a 3rd world country and not the richest nation on Earth. We (and by we I mean the greedy assholes who seem to make the rules around here) fail to provide for our citizens basic needs so the poor can buy crap from China and the rich can get richer without ever having to contribute anything to society.

This old riff that people are wiser with their money than the government is total bullshit. Not only are people actually quite stupid with their money, but many things we need cannot be decided upon by individuals. Only the government has both motive and money to build roads, schools, and a first-class national health care system. The right loves to discuss how expensive private health care is and why it is such a massive burden on our companies. What they always fail to mention (or realize) is that every other industrial country has figured out the solution to this: National, single-payer, universal health care.

Lee, you seem like a good guy who wants nothing but the best for his country and his family. It is a national shame that you are ever forced into such a decision. The fact that this is not the first time is simply appalling.

And to El Mystico, who posted his comment while I was typing, you are simply misinformed about socialized medicine.

Like many government programs, the success varies from country to country. Those who are opposed to socialized medicine like to point out Canada and the UK, which have to two most inefficient health services in the industrialized world. Take a look at Denmark, Sweeden, Norway, and even France if you want to see how it works when it works well.

What is this insurance that you speak of? It took me a month and a half to completely shake a chest infection because I couldn't afford to do anything about it.

I hear you, 289- we were uninsured for YEARS...which is probably why my diabetes went undetected.

Ari - well said....

That's actually my biggest fear. I'm pretty sure that's going to happen to me.

Totally awesome story that Jerome A Paris has been posting this time of year for the past few- I send it to my winger relatives when they get that snear in their voices-Socialist healthcare horror story . Must, and I mean must read and send around.

"This is f-cking crazy. It's un-American but it's totally American."

These sentences reminded me of...

MS. MORNIN: That’s good, because I work three jobs and I feel like I contribute.

[Chimp]: You work three jobs?

MS. MORNIN: Three jobs, yes.

[Chimp]: Uniquely American, isn’t it? I mean, that is fantastic that you’re doing that. (Applause.) Get any sleep? (Laughter.)

________

It's very reminiscent of his mother. When the hurricane refugees moved to temporary dwellings in TX, she said something like, "They like it here. It's better than their old house."

These cocksuckers don't get it. They have never been forced to get it... which probably partly accounts for the monkey's intellectual laziness.. though I try to avoid using the word "intellectual" in any sentence with him.

I was listening to-- of all people-- Tom Leykis and some of his callers-- economically astute callers (believe it or not)-- place most of the blame on the chimp the other day. Usually I don't believe that a president deserves credit or blame for economic conditions, but in this case such blame is probably warranted.

Lee, (This is a joke with some truth)

I have the solution to your problem. If you are under the age of 42 and only have one felony conviction and a GED you can enlisted. (Joke)

However, the biggest hypocrites of socialized medicine are military members. This is bullshit because I have socialized medicine. I don't pay one dollar for healthcare. (Truth)

I'm getting health insurance for the first time in 7 years, starting next week. I'll be able to go to the doctor! And have a mammogram! Maybe even some innoculations!

And, El Myst - why is the Canadian system the one that's always brought up when discussing universal health care? There are many, many other examples of systems that work fine - Austria, Japan, Norway. There was an excellent documentary on PBS about healthcare systems around the world (where people get care & DON'T have to declare bankruptcy afterward!) maybe a year ago. If you're buying into the "socialized medicine is bad" meme, you're buying a mistruth. To most of us without insurance the answer to but would you prefer socialized medicine? is a resounding YES. It's better, much better, than the nothing we have now!

that was excellent ceu, I have never understood the argument against free healthcare. If millions of americans have nothing isn't something better that nothing?

>>There was an excellent documentary on PBS about healthcare systems around the world

Ugh. That documentary was like David Broder Presents Sicko. "Well, we don't want to have to pay doctors any less than they currently make, so this won't work." I hate that guy so much now. Possibly the worst Frontline I've seen.

Ive been uninsured for years, after leaving advertising i held onto my insurance for as long as a could afford it. Now i cant get insured because of the dreaded preexisting condition.

I've figured out how to "heal thyself" whenever possible. Its the only option. I'm completely fucked if something catastrophic happens. I mean seriously, absolutely and completely fucked. I know a lot of people in my position.

God Bless America

I'm not sure that's the one it was, Travis. It was something a kid told me to watch & I caught it partway thru....but I got a lot of info out of it.

Lee, I hope the best for you and your family.

I worked as a medical transcriptionist before becoming totally disabled. I've seen the system from both sides and have had years to consider and think about the broken U.S. system.

I've come to a few conclusions:

Consumer choice is poison to keeping a lid on costs.

Employer's have NO business being involved with employee health care or as gatekeeper's of care.

Private industry is way more expensive than government when it comes to the billing end of the business.

Running health care as a 9-to-5 business doesn't make sense. Why should there be a premium for after-hours care? Do human bodies give a shit about what time it is?

Private industry and free markets have value. However, they are only problematic to a well-run and cost efficient health care system and really have no place or role except that of PARASITE.

Bottom-line? America loves money and could give a shit about people. Don't ever forget, that UNIONS are the archenemy of free markets. That should tell you all you need to know.

We live in a country that expects us to work harder and faster and then expects that increase in productivity to remain in the pockets of administrator's and investor's only. Not only do we have a shitty health care system but any gains in productivity are not shared with employees.

The U.S. and free markets: What a scam!

Take care of yourself people. Happy New Year.

"I mean, in Canada, you literally have to die before they can treat you. That's how bad socialized medicine is. Yeah."

This totally took me by surprise!
As a recipient of healthcare whenever I've needed it,[including MRI's, CT scans, an operation, regular aches and pains, etc] I'm not sure to what this is refering.

Hi GIthe and ceu, good to see you! Seasons Greetings!

We have no healthcare insurance and my wife has diabetes. We couldn't get healthcare for her because of pre-existing condition. So we were unable to get any constant care even though she's had a couple of heart attacks.
She recently had another heart attack, a major one,
plus she's in renal failure and now needs dialysis,
plus they diagnosed her with emphysema.
Because of all her conditions the surgeons said that there was a good chance she wouldn't make it even if they operated. The good news is she's now automatically covered under medi-cal and will be also covered under medicare whenever her social security disabilty comes through.
The bad news is she's not going to last long at all. She's back in the hospital again and I have to go now.

Seeing ceu's name made me remember - my preemie son spent 3 months in NICU and I didn't have to mortgage my eyelashes to pay. I'm really not sure I understand El M's comment.

Oops! Read over my comments and feel quite thoughtless. Sorry to read the stories of those who are suffering, and hope that the plans the incoming president has for health care will be helpful, effective and speedily set in place.

There's nothing to El M's post. It's factless, pointless and meant to obscure.

I haven't had health insurance for 8 years now. I miss it only for the great massage bennies. When you work out as hard as I do a professional manage makes one recover faster and makes one stronger, quicker, and of course healthier.

But sitting around and looking "outside" for healthcare is pointless and has been for over 30 years. I don't know why 30, it was just in my late teens I notice things started getting sloppy.

You didn't ask for it, but I've got to unload about healthcare.

Why the FUCK are any of you eating fast foods?
Why in fuck's good name are any of you eating out of a box?
Good fucking Grief Lee - you live in one of the best year round farmer's market on the planet - why in hell aren't you out there every weekend?

If you want to solve health, energy issues, and climate crisis - indeed if you want to overhaul this entire back asswards country - start eating loally grown organic food only!

It REALLY is as simple as that.

Okay, I'll give you some facts - and hopefully El MystiWacko won't do the usual nuttery bit.

Organic has a lot less immune suppressors. Duh! I had to type that because ye olde garbage in-garbage out rule applies to food. You eat pesticide-laden food? Don't fucking expect health to ensue. You are what you eat, right down to the fucking mitochondria - you know, the E.N.G.I.N.E. that drives all cellular energy thingi doohickabee? Yeah, that. Right in there.

And yet we've got Lee moaning about DcMonalds as if he could simply rationalize hard enough to wish away ill effects of fast foods (oh fucking never mind that there isn't food in fast)

Organic, locally grown is FRESHER. The fresher something is, the more nutrients it's got. The more nutrieints something's got, the better it is for you. Simple!

Drink filtered water, never ever drink bottled water. Yes, that Premium 10 stage filter from Whole Foods is worth every nickel. You can find it online for less though. The nest water filtration though costs $400.00 from NewWaveEnviro.

Drink distilled water if you can. Add Concentrace for a truly hideous taste packing all the minerals you need.

oh - minerals! That's what you need organic, local veggies for: minerals. Minerals are the backbone of nutrition.

Do not drink soda of any kind. If you must, brew your own with organic sugar. At any rate, don't drink that rat poison. Avoid all sugar of any kind as much as possible. Avoid all low fat foods: it's processed junk. Avoid artificial sweeteners like the plaque, or if you have them use them to keep bugs out of the house - that'll teach you not to consume it and expect a longer life when you see how fast it kills out bugs and their food chain.

(For the record, I don't use it for that purpose because we depend on bugs for a healthy soil.).

I have a few more but this should cover it fellow Cescans. You should shame yourself (and family) into eating right.

As for optimal health, if you do the above, then do Ashtanga Yoga to keep fit and healthy. I dare you to do it for 25 minutes a day, the do the basic sequences. It will knowck the shit out of you. Ashtanga is Indian for "ass kicking", or should be.

I haven't been to a hospital in years. I don't ever anticipate needing one. Being deaf means that I'm guaranteed to be given the worst possible care. I have zero value in the eyes of doctors.

My daughter spent 5 years in the UK system and says pretty much that no, it's not perfect, but it beats the hell out of what she came back to--no insurance and an $800 bill on a minor (by most emergency standards) but necessary emergency visit on a weekend. It was my British citizen son-in-law's first real experience with our "system" and he was not impressed. I can't believe anyone would rant about Canadian and UK health care. At least people aren't financially devastated, even if they have issues with time of care (or whatever the issue which wasn't detailed above in the complaint). Even the less effective ones offer access, more than millions of Americans have.

I was gonna do an aria about my mother's illnesses and my own, but instead I'll just say that I think El Mystico was being sarcastic. Sarcasm doesn't translate well over the internet, but the extra "Yeah." in there is a good indication.

To the idea that if we just all become health fanatics, we won't NEED health insurance, I offer the following thoughts: 1) You are delusional, that you think health is purely a factor of how well you treat your body. An accident can still take you out. Your own genetics can take you out. And eventually, age will catch up with you. And 2) Let's say you are right about your own body. Apparently your "perfect" lifestyle doesn't leave room for compassion to others, that you can't imagine someone's arthritic, out of shape grandmother (maybe your own) might have a life worth preserving - that someone might be fat or lazy but still has a loving heart or is the best conversationalist you've ever known or does something for a living that really benefits humanity... You just want them to roll over and die because they live in America and not a country with great socialist medicine. And by the way, by almost any measure, the U.S. is far behind most industrialized country in health care for its citizens - even though we pay the most per capita.

Frictionsoul, you say you don't "anticipate" ever needing a hospital. Again, what a staggering lack of imagination that you can't imagine anything will ever happen to you that you don't "anticipate." How many people see the accident coming? How many people in the prime of life and in otherwise perfect health discover they have cancer? Apparently your yoga practice is physical only and not spiritual, or you would realize that we are all connected, and worry more about compassion than perfectly filtered water.

>>>And to El Mystico, who posted his comment while I was typing, you are simply misinformed about socialized medicine.

>>And, El Myst - why is the Canadian system the one that's always brought up when discussing universal health care?

Aw it was only a joke. Sorry if my tone was confusing. Like I said, I have minimal healthcare only because I just went back to school (and probably won't be able to afford it again once I'm done). I know someone who got their arm broken in France, walked in and got patched up for like 15 Euro, and that's as a foreigner.

>>>Okay, I'll give you some facts - and hopefully El MystiWacko won't do the usual nuttery bit. Posted by: frictionsoul

And you can just bite me.

Also thank you theo

Gotcha, El Myst. It did seem a little out of character for you...but I'm sensitive about healthcare insurance having heard people say all too often that socialized medicine is crap. There are 47 million of us - and too many stories like Lee's and myhero's. :(

I commiserate with everyone here who has written about their scary predicaments. My husband and I work for the same company, whcih is about to go bankrupt. Since they haven't paid the premium on our insurance, we are now without, and we're both in our late 50s. We're in mostly good health, thank goodness, but it's only a matter of time before one of us will need medical attention that we can't afford. I am a cancer survivor and am supposed to be "checked" once a year, which includes blood work to detect any red flags of recurrence. I can't afford it and don't want to go into debt, so it won't be happening. I know mine is just one of millions of sad stories, so there's nothing special about my situation, but it's pathetic that this country treats its citizens with such disregard.

Just came back - Thanks, Theo [and sorry El M].

I'm not too perceptive (didn't pick up the sarcasm) and your comment did throw me.

Apologies - will TRY to be more observant/aware. I do tend to be a little too literal, which is why most of the time I just read and say nothing.

I'm in the U.K. and if we are the worst for socialized medicine then you are really in trouble in the U.S.A. At any time of the day or night I can see a doctor, which does not have to be my doctor. In my entire life I have never waited more than 20 minutes when I turn up unannounced for an appointment. Prescription costs are limited and is actually being phased out across the U.K.

Sorry, EM. I missed that one word.

And encouraging that PE Obama plans to do something about it? Do you all think his proposal, as outlined during his campaign, will work?

Friction - on one hand I appreciate the advice and I don't disagree with it - on the other hand, WTF world are you living in where shopping organically at Whole Foods won't get my car repossessed? I like Whole Foods. Can't afford it. I'd like a $400 water filter. Can't afford it. I'd love to traipse off to the farmer's market after my hot yoga workout but I have trouble finding time to get on the treadmill that's in my bedroom. The shaming strategy doesn't work, it just makes me feel like you are living in an alternate reality. But, really - I do appreciate it.

Vic - don't know if his proposal as outlined will work, but I'm pretty sure that the situation will be addressed.

No problem Ceu et al I seem to be having that trouble lately. Maybe until they invent a script that accurately portrays tone, I can just post sarcastic messages as El Sarcasmo...

You know the one thing that I love almost as much as the Hills? The Hills Aftershow. Cos it's like, people like me who love the show, talking about the show on their own show. It's so super clutch.

That came through loud and clear. :)

lee...this gets you at least 2.31 funny points with me...

>>I'd love to traipse off to the farmer's market after my hot yoga workout but I have trouble finding time to get on the treadmill that's in my bedroom.

btw..i am an organic, pilates girl but frictionsoul people like you make those who aren't, for whatever reason, see us as silly. STOP! it's one thing to talk about the obvious health and environmental benefits, it's another to do whatever you did up thread!

frictionsoul I hope you dont get hit by a bus or something cuz that 400 dollar water filter ain't gonna fix any of them broken bones or and pesky internal bleeding.

Insurance, whether it be for health, autos, etc. is for the unexpected. I will forgo many things, but not insurance. I pay $242 per month. You just never know.

BTW, my business and my husband's have both taken a HUGE hit this year, but we both agree that health insurance is NOT something that we, or anyone, can do without.

We haven't had a vacation in years, I have holes in my socks and shoes and some of my pants, but I have health insurance and it has been a "life saver".

Reprioritize.

If I insure just me, it's $355 and all covered by work. If I insure me + wife and kids, it's $1000 a month and then I need to come up with hundreds of dollars. I have to insure, which keep be insured through COBRA even if I leave my job...which I plan to, ASAP....so...that's the math.

girl du jour, What part of they won't insure because of pre-existing condition can't you understand?
I wish I could have got health insurance for 242 dollars a month, I've been paying out of pocket more that that just for my wife's prescriptions
not to mention out of pocket for doctor visits.
They wouldn't have insured her for 10,000 dollars or even a million. Take your reprioritize and shove it.

Lee: do you freelance? Do you make money doing so? I ask because here on the east coast there's something called the freelancers union that might be helpful to you.

Having read thru the thread, I can say this - everyone is right. Lee, given the conditions, and the fact that you now have a diagnosed condition, you need to find a way to keep your insurance. And you need to make a serious investment in your family's health maintenance. If your kids eat Mickey D's you need to keep that limited. It can and should be done...and fresh vegetables from the supermarket are still better than nothing.

Lee, I moved to the hudson valley to give my kid a chance at life. Because I rarely can afford to pay upfront for a monthly pass, I pay over $450 a month commuting to and from work. I work from home a couple of days a week, so I have to keep my overpriced internet service. There are days I'm wondering if I've got enough food to make it through till my next paycheck. I've called in sick because of not having carfare to work. And I sometimes feel myself enslaved to my job...good thing I like it and that I like my bosses and feel they like me... but I'm very much indentured. I never even blink at the money that comes out of my paycheck for insurance - because I need it.

I hate insurance - hate the system of it. But getting stuck burying an indigent father taught me not to buck the system too much...I get and keep insurance. It's more important than the electric bill sometimes, and heck, even more important than the rent. Someone could take us in if I were evicted... but no one can afford my care if I'm sick.

More and more, btw, I think about ways of pooling resources and sharing plenty from our pennies... Father Divine was maligned in his day, but he was onto something...

QT

Wow, somehow Lee's appeal for taking a look at what's important has drawn the judgmental moths to the flame.

Frictionsoul: Glad you're in great shape. It should make your time with your mirror more enjoyable.

Du jour: Most people who are uninsured are not in that situation because they have a few too many plasma televisions. Here's a clue: $242/month is CHEAP FUCKING HEALTH INSURANCE, but still beyond the reach of MANY people. And Lee needs to insure his whole family, and that's gonna be a helluva lot more than $242 on any plan.

Less lectures. More compassion.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/12/25/145618/49

"Socialized medicine" in France. Well worth at least a partial read. (Paddy provided the link)

I have a friend in a similar situation - her son was diagnosed with a malignant brain tumor on the day he graduated from college. They have health insurance, but they're still going under... We had a fundraiser last month to raise money for his ongoing treatment.
If it had been one of my kids, s/he would be dead now....and not because I took too many vacations.

@Lee,

I don't shop Whole Foods - can't afford it. I get a few things but shop mostly at Vitamin Cottage. It's very affordable.

@peggy + jenny,
You actually can anticipate accidents. Tune in and drop out of whatever belief system you've got crammed into your head that says otherwise. Yeah, sure, life is unpredictable, but part of my motto is pay attention.

Most don't. Accidents happen to those who aren't paying attention. I do because I don't want to get nailed and win up in some god forsaken ER.

Compassion: I have lots of it, just zero tolerance for people who make poor choices about food, who get sick, who get their kids sick, who make kid sick.

Yes, we're in this together but
individual health brings up communal health issues, and if your shit poor choices affect me, then fuck you, you fuckin fuck and start growing a brain unwashed by the propaganda of advertising. Learn to take care of yourself. Move the fuck out of LA (I used to live there) and into a community where you can actually do some good.

Learn to be healthy. Start making choices today for better health. If my previous post got under your skin, good, do something about it.

I have compassion towards those who want to be healthier. For those who want status quo, then status quo is what you'll get and the rest of us might not be that happy about it because as note, we're in this together.

So stop eating at DcMonald's Lee.

Mr. Furious:
The mirror merely reflects the efforts I make. Being a much more older dad than most means that keeping up with my 5 year old requires I defy my age, and I have because I refuse to eat crap, and I refuse the negative energy directed towards me by those who just don't fucking get how powerful they really are.

So take this "less lecture" rationalization and do something good with it.

Know those "Race for the Cure" they have around the country?

If you ever want to engage in your own "Race for Prevention" just avoid ingesting anything made by the sponsors.

Friction, do you not recognize negative energy when you see it in your own mirror? Compassion only for those who live the lifestyle you want them to lead is not compassion at all. Your post is thick with hostility and puritanical judgmentalism. Apparently you do honestly think that people who have made poor food choices deserve to die for lack of affordable health care - or maybe that's just their bad karma for not thinking your elevated, f-word laden thoughts. I really want to know: Is it OK with you when someone dies that could have been saved by decent health care - just because you think they somehow asked for it? Is there absolutely no one you have ever loved or valued even though they ate at McDonalds or failed to work out?

Still knocking my head against the wall at the idea that you can avoid accidents by staying alert. Tell that to the people who die when a drunk driver suddenly swerves into their lane.... We had a military jet fall on a house here recently. I suppose the women and children who died in the burning jet wreckage were just asking for it with their lack of proper accident-avoidance karma.

Furious, I agree that $242 is both ridiculously cheap for health insurance and completely beyond the ability of many people to pay. You can have health insurance and not be able to scrape together the $30 co-pay. Even a trip to the neighborhood clinic, where they make you pay on a sliding scale, requires cash - and I mean cash, as in dollar bills - no checks or credit cards accepted. In less than a decade, many of us have seen health insurance go from covered by almost any employer to merely expensive to completely unaffordable.

Those who still find it affordable are probably at the good end of the actuarial table - i.e., young and with no pre-existing conditions. And of course with no pesky dependants.

This is not an abstract issue. Real people, decent people, people with much to contribute, are dying for lack of affordable care. Many more are crippling themselves financially. We are unique among industrialized countries in putting up with this - until now. May it change, and soon.

Frictionsoul is the Dick Cheney of yoga.

Excellent one, Furious.

"You actually can anticipate accidents"

wow youre clavoyant too! Must be all that super filtery water.