Bob, I love you.

I lurve Bob.

Crap! Harem got there first. :) And you have excellent taste.

Excellent Bob. And of course she wouldn't engage in a conversation about Iraq because she knew that she couldnt defend her stance on that subject. And her final put down - "I work for a living" as if to imply that you and rest of us immature, myopic far left's dont work. That is what they really believe - that we are all out here waiting for a hand-out

They cant suck enough.

If only asshat Repuke dead enders like this particluar bimbo are the ones working then that would mean only 33% of us have jobs. Last time I checked I was employed and gasp - I am one of those dirty hippie commie leftie gays. Funny what happens to these people when their talking points hit a wall -- "Do no (sic) email me anymore because you are not credible..." hahahaha! What a tool.

that always happens! never fails. dumb people get "fired up" to the point of contacting their current source of rage and when current source of rage counters with facts and examples of their hypocritical stupidity they name call and run from the debate.

i loved the part about "we are different"...wtf? if she is so upset with contributing her money to society she obviously doesn't have a lot of it. therefore she would be one of those benefiting most. it's like the people of the appalachian mountains. things are so dire for them they get a hour special on being the "forgotten people" of america. yet who has forgot/screwed them?! who do they vote for?!

Nothing like looking at life through a teeny tiny rightwingnutty needle-like tube. She forgot to ask you why you hate America, though.
Fabulous responses, Bob!

Typical leftist response: the truth.

As a typical far leftist, you are apparently more concerned with terrorists rights than national security.

My favorite right-wing response. When faced with facts quickly bring up terrorists. No matter what the conversation is about.

Education? Lefties love terrorists.
Infrastructure? Lefties love terrorists.
What do you want for lunch today? Lefties love terrorists.

Do no e-mail me any more because you are not credible and I am working. I work for a living.

Hopefully not as a copy editor. But this is a telling statement: Denise hates her life, but fortunately her fellow Christians/Republicans know who's causing all the strife in her life: Democrats. Those damn heathens with their facts and education that question her easily digested narrow world-view. You bastards!

Bob why are you so immature as to try and engage a republican in an economic discussion? Don't you know that every answer contains some combination of the words "leftist" "socialist" and "redistribution of wealth" mixed in with a bunch of other gobbeldy-guck? You'll never ever get an answer to why our existing forms of socialism ie public works, schools, soc security are just fine but quality health care is going too far.

This reminds me of my conservative sister-in-law who has 3 kids from different fathers and all of them are on public aid.

Of course she voted McCain because she doesn't want socialism to take over.

Bob, your argument that public services are socialist is flimsy at best. There is a big difference in the government providing public services and the intervention and dictating the production of goods.

Bush and his republican followers have proved that government is only the problem when they fail to referee the private sector.

FUCK I wish I got hatemail. I need to go pick a fight.

I recommend that Denise take a long vacation in a country without a strong central government. Might I suggest Sierra Leone, Colombia, or Afghanistan? Some people don't know what they've got until it's gone.

seejane wrote:

>>>Bob, your argument that public services are socialist is flimsy at best. There is a big difference in the government providing public services and the intervention and dictating the production of goods.

"Dictating the production of goods"? You mean, like government spending? Is that your problem? You're against government spending?

If you're talking about the government owning the means of production, I'm not calling for that.

And yes -- roads, Social Security, public schools and the like are all forms of socialism and wealth redistribution. Sorry!

seejane has a reasonable point about the definition of socialism, but the point is not sufficient to detract from Bob's post. Denise complained that the government's job "is not to redistribute people’s wealth." That is a common complaint from the ridiculous right. Bob was spot on for calling her on that.

I think the HR departments of companies could help with the send it back program. An employee could select to receive the now socialist tax cut or select to send it back to the government program of their choice.

Then the send it backers could wear their "I'm not a socialist - I sent it back!" tee shirt to work so the rest of the socialists would now who refused to participate.

Bob, I disagree with you using public services as an argument for expanding the socialization of america. Is it not true that Obama said that companies that use from the stimulus package will be required to conform to government requirements? This is the "toe in the door" for the government to have more access to how you do your business.

Excellent.

She can't argue her points because she is only parroting the wingnuts she hears on the tube or the radio. (She also probably doesn't know who owns the airwaves.)

People like Denise have not learned to think. They memorize without understanding so they cannot defend their rants.

Denise, google "deductive reasoning". Or better yet, go to the socialist library and check out a book on the subject.

Anyone know where I can find a good terrorist to love?

What about being a baby killer? She left that part out. I thought we killed babies, even though we're clearly against kicking them in the face?

CycloCynic, perfect response.

@seejane
The government already forces businesses to conform to standards. See OSHA, FDA, child labor laws, minimum wage act, construction codes for...um...everything. The government also forces businesses to not do illegal things with company money. I could go on. Are all of those things somehow more socialist or less socialist than other things?

Are you saying that having the government pay for things is socialism lite, not as bad, but when the government enforces parameters to be followed when it uses our money, that is out of line?

This is the "toe in the door" for the government to have more access to how you do your business.

I prefer that, Ms The Seejane, to the giant "Ass In The Door" that Big Business has been giving us for god knows how long. Have you been paying attention lately? Big Business is broken. They've squandered EIGHT YEARS of tax cuts and incentives to ship jobs to Timbuktu and who is it, exactly, they're begging for help? (Here's a hint: It's got a really big toe.)

All your Trickle-down Arguments about Socialism are hereby null and void. We tried it your way, your way broke everyone's shit, now us and our Big Democratic Toes are going to kick some doors down.

So get out of the way.

seejane thinks that socialism and communism are the same. They are not. However Neoconservatism and fascism are exactly the same.

Strawdog wrote:

>>>seejane has a reasonable point about the definition of socialism

Well, it's reasonably wrong. Marx defined socialism as the government owning the means of production. The only industry/producer in America where Marx's definition of socialism applies is farming, and I don't know many liberals who support this policy -- least of all me.

However, is there anything in the recovery bill indicating government ownership of industry? The issue here is socialism as it applies to wealth redistribution. That's what everyone on the far-right is griping about.

seejane wrote:

>>>Is it not true that Obama said that companies that use from the stimulus package will be required to conform to government requirements?

Wouldn't THAT be nice for a change? I mean, the government has funneled billions to Iraq contractors with ZERO oversight.

>>>This is the "toe in the door" for the government to have more access to how you do your business.

If I were a government contractor, I would expect that the government -- the collective body representing We The People -- would have a say in how I spent that money.

This is the "toe in the door" for the government to have more access to how you do your business.

I want exactly the same kind of socialism as Canada. No more. No less.

I will fight until we have it.

Get used to it.

Denise is so tied up in her prejudices and misconceptions that she has no idea of what she is talking about. If she doesn't understand that Roads, Highways, Schools, Postal Service, Social Security, Medicare, and Public Libraries are all forms of applied socialism, then she is just terribly misinformed and has no idea what socialism is.

These people have all been programmed with "Socialism is Bad" without ever having had what socialism is explained to them.

I think we need a push to explain to people what socialism is. We should give it a new name - like sharingism.

They only recognize fuckyouism.

Can we all agree that when we use "big boy" words, we will:
1) understand their actual meaning independently and contextually and,
2) not use the same one over and over and over and over and over and over and over such as position flexible job creation.

AD HOMINEM!

Buy a thesaurus, beotch.

This immature leftist, socialist, communist,is about to lose a business that I have run for almost 20 years because of the crap that George Bush has left us with.

I wish I had a job!

>>This immature leftist, socialist, communist,is about to lose a business that I have run for almost 20 years because of the crap that George Bush has left us with.

I feel your pain, Hicks.

Hicks -

Sorry to hear that.

I keep saying that the BBQ media is still covering up just how bad the economy really is right now. I guess they don't want to frighten us to death but the right wing uses the lack of accurate coverage to accuse the left of overreacting.

The economy is far worse than most people realize.

Denise pegged you. Above comments are a clear indication. Thanks for publishing.

Posted by: enormonous at February 19, 2009 12:55 PM

By the way, Sam Adam's White Ale is very good. Ever tried it? I bet the brewery's and distillery's are doing quite well through this rough patch.

Posted by: enormonous at February 19, 2009 12:59 PM

What the fuck is that supposed to mean? Please don't waste bandwidth if you're not going to bring anything to the table.

Yes, the above comments are a clear indication that you and Denise don't know the meaning of socialism, don't understand how government works, and are a good example on how we have to do something on school reform. Pick up a book, for god's sake. Stop jabbering about "socialism" this, "wealth redistribution" that without knowing what the fuck you are talking about. Stop repeating the usual wingnut rhetoric.

And if your comments were some attempt at snarky sarcasm, then work on that as well because it didn't work.

Thanks again the The Carl of Broadway.

The wingnuttery sometimes just leaves me ... speechless.

Many Wingnots™ are nothing more than talking point playback droids. If you lined them all up end to end you still wouldn't find an original thought.

That is unbelievable -- I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Bob made a valiant effort, but this wingnut idiot isn't going to let the facts get in the way of her self-righteous rage. All those undeserving people on welfare are taking away something that's righfully hers, dammit!

How terrifying is it that so many people believe shit like this? Thank you Ronald Reagan for kick-starting the process of killing the American public schools. If our education system hadn't been on life support for the past 30 years, perhaps there wouldn't be so many uninformed people running around believing all this nonsense and voting for Republicans.

Bob, the thing is that it is not only government contractors, it will be everyone, including you.

Sillygit, you have got to be kidding.

It amazes me how often you hear the term "socialism" decried as being "un-American". The truth is, facilitation of limited socialism is implied in the Constitution. Don't believe me?

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

You can argue that that can be interpreted a number of ways, but one way it cannot be interpreted is "Every man for himself."

"provide for the common defence" vs. preemptive war seems to be another area of confusion.

I would have argued with you about Iraq, Bob. Then again, I think I have the right to.

Fact is, nobody views public roads as socialist roads. Just like no one views SS as socialist, even though it's right in the name.

Maybe if we called it something else, it wouldn't be such a magnet? "Socialism" is the NAZI party. I don't think anyone in our country is calling for that kind of socialism.

The fear behind the conservative words is the same it has always been. Loss of freedom. The more power government has, the less freedom man has.

That, by the way, is a historical fact

"Why is it okay to redistribute our wealth to Iraq, but it's not okay to redistribute our wealth to roads, bridges, the elderly, the military, schools and job creation?"

Thanks, Bob. I've been screaming this for years.

When did they stop teaching various political systems in schools? It's pretty astounding that people don't know the difference between socialism, communism, facism, feudalism, etc.
Your tax dollars at work...

Thanks for sharing those exchanges, Bob. (Or would that be "exchange's", as in distillery's?)

I love the way they squirm when you take 'em down.

Bob,

All countries, even the non-socialist one's have chore services such as fire, police, schools, military, roads ect. You are dumbing down the conversation as a typical lefty does because lefty's can never use logic to debate. It's not even worth our time to debate you guys. At the end of the day every conversation turns into Republicans being racist and mean... Why bother?

It's a free country, (at least for now), and all viewpoints should be heard, (at least for now). Time will tell if the stimulus bill actually created jobs or just funded pet projects to move the liberal agenda along... I'm betting the latter.

i'm "praying" for the latter pat!

And that is the typical arguemnt with a conservative all typed up for everyone to read!
Thanks for posting that Bob, it was good for some giggles!

Pat just wrote a post saying that its a waste of time to post on a liberal blog. My brain just collapsed on itself reading that.

"Bob, the thing is that it is not only government contractors, it will be everyone, including you."

No, only those who take government bailout money.

Now explain to me why there shouldn't be oversight as to how MY tax money is spent to bailout these guys who ran their respective companies into the ground.

Some say that public services don't count as socialism. I lean toward Bob's side on that, but I can see the point.

This one might be a little tougher, though: might want to look up the construction of Ranger's Stadium in Arlington. First, they condemned private property, taxed the citizens of Arlington to pay for it, handed it to private developers for the construction, and how many season tickets do you think the good folks in the Metroplex got for their property and taxes? And who ultimately made a helluva lotta money of the deal? Why yes, I believe it *was* a drugstore Texan!

So, if socialism is the re-distribution of wealth, looks like 43 did quite well for himself under such an economy. Had he requisitioned something lesser -- say a clapped-out Gremlin, he woulda gotten around 15 years in Stripe City.

Denise would lower her blood pressure by becoming a Republican, rather than a zealot (presuming she leans conservative). The party would do well to do likewise.

k

Pooper, SS stood for "Schutzstaffel" ("defense echelon"). And if the Nazis were socialists, then North Korea is a Democratic People's Republic, too. There was nothing at all 'socialist' about Nazis -- they practiced corporate fascism.

And those, Pooper, are "historical facts."

It's a free country, (at least for now), and all viewpoints should be heard, (at least for now).

What is this "at least for now" bullshit? Is big, bad Obama going to take away your civil liberties and wiretap your phone and put millions of people on a "No fly" list? Oh wait, he doesn't have to because that compassionate conservative George W. Bush already did those things.

Grow the fuck up. You don't debate "lefties" because you have no ammunition to debate with. Just as your post shows, you don't take up the debate with thoughtful ideas to rebut, you just complain that we're too stupid to deal without one simple statement about why you think Bob is wrong.

News flash: "You're wrong because you are liberal" is not a good debating tactic. Come back when you have some facts, douche.

Fish. Barrel. Gun.

Kent wrote:

>>>Some say that public services don't count as socialism. I lean toward Bob's side on that, but I can see the point.

Here's an encapsulated form of my point. What's the difference between paying X dollars in taxes to protect your neighbor from criminals by helping to finance the police department, and paying X dollars per year to protect your neighbor from dying from a preventable disease by helping to finance healthcare?

Matt,

We're going to have to disagree there. You have given me a fine definition of what YOU think socialism is. Hitler himself declared the Nazi party to be socialistic, as a way to define their differences with his second most hated form of government, communism. Russia's use of the word "socialistic" pissed Hitler off to no end, because in his mind, communism and socialism were two very different things, and in reality, they are.

In referring to SS, I was referring to Social Security, not the Schutzstaffel. Thus my "it's right in the name" comment.

I'd like to know how many of those respondents have actually read Barry Goldwater's The Conscience of a Conservative, in which he pointed out that federal money handed out to states and local governments are their own money minus an exorbitant user fee. Apparently the GOP class of '94 didn't take that to heart, either; remember the "block grants?"

Hitler himself declared the Nazi party to be socialistic

politicalpartypooper wrote: "The fear behind the conservative words is the same it has always been. Loss of freedom. The more power government has, the less freedom man has."

This is a legitimate worry, all questions of socialism and terminology aside. However, we should all be far more concerned with losing our freedoms to other entities (corporations, economic disaster, climate, uneducated fellow citizens,.. ) than to a government elected fairly by an informed citizenry.

politicalpartypooper wrote: "The fear behind the conservative words is the same it has always been. Loss of freedom. The more power government has, the less freedom man has."

So then why did the conservatives spend the last 8 years rallying behind the biggest power grab in US government history?