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February 21, 2009
Scarborough Is A Jeffersonian? That's A Laugh.
For those of us who love our country and the diverse viewpoints that have made America the greatest experiment in the history of government, now is the time to engage in intellectual debates between Jeffersonians who err on the side of individual rights, and Hamiltonians who are more likely to defer to the state.
I watch Morning Joe just about every day, and I can assure you, I haven't heard an "intellectual debate" about the nature of American economic policy as it relates to the founders. Ever. In fact, would someone with access to the transcripts tell me if the word "Hamiltonian" has been mentioned at all?
From what I've overheard, Scarborough has engaged in red-baiting nearly every day. Predictably, he'll deny that invoking the words "socialism" and "wealth redistribution" is red-baiting, but then again, one of his debating crutches is to deny anything he's ever accused of, most often while shouting down his guests. He'll deny that he supported Bush administration policies, he'll deny that he's resorted to name-calling, and he'll often deny (as he did to David Shuster) that he's a Republican.
What I want to know is this: if Scarborough is such a Jeffersonian, why was he against one of the largest tax cuts in American history? The largest middle class tax cut?
How Jeffersonian of him.
Would Jefferson have supported invading and occupying Iraq (to be fair, Scarborough withdrew his support of the war in late 2005 -- nearly three years after the invasion)? Did Jefferson support legislating Christian dogma, as Scarborough does? Would Jefferson have supported the Patriot Act or torture or military commissions or the suspension of habeas or illegal eavesdropping as Scarborough does?
Let's debate Jefferson vs. Hamilton, Joe. I don't think you're as much a Jeffersonian as you think you are.
Filed under: Joe Scarborough || Send It Back || Stimulus || Tax Cuts || Thomas Jefferson
Posted By Bob Cesca | February 21, 2009 9:48 AM
Comments
I smell a duel! (Hamilton duel reference originally unintended). Come on, Joe. Face to face with Bob. Your show, pick the time.
Posted by: dontpanic23 at February 21, 2009 10:22 AM
wasn't yesterday the anniversary of anti-duel day?
I say that is the way to celebrate, love it DP
Posted by: veralynn at February 21, 2009 10:30 AM
Joe Scarborough is a bully and will never face anyone he knows he can't bully. That is the most despicable thing about him. He keeps his mouth shut when it is not someone he is comfortable going off on...usually women-or men he thinks he has the edge on because it is his show. Actually he has a real edge on no one.
I am wondering how the moderating is being done on his piece. It is like some sort of alternate reality to read the posts on there. They are nearly all complimentary. Mine,which was not inflammatory just said it's not his views it's his personality,that make him unwatchable! I've seen lots worse written to people.
Posted by: JDS at February 21, 2009 10:37 AM
I stopped too soon. My comment was not posted. My daughter had 2 that weren't complimentary but weren't inflammatory not posted.
Posted by: JDS at February 21, 2009 10:38 AM
The constant reference and alignment with the Founders is getting a little old. The country is so far removed from what it was at it's founding, I think it's a bit silly for him to consider this a debate between Jeffersonians and Hamiltonians. I mean really. Do we refer to civil rights as debate between Lincolnians and Davisonians?
Some of the Founders had extremely progressive ideas for their time. The best way to venerate them is to continue to push ideas that are progressive for our time.
Posted by: Nanotyrannus at February 21, 2009 10:39 AM
JDS: Join the club. I too, was robbed of the joy of having my comment posted at HuffPo. My comment was not inflammatory in the least and contained no foul language or disprespect. i just happened to not agree with ass face.
So, after 4 hours I wrote the moderators and told them they stink. Then I wrote them a second and a third time letting them know just HOW MUCH they stink.
Let's face it, Bob is the only good thing over there.
Posted by: sammyscooge at February 21, 2009 10:44 AM
I apologize for my typos. Didn't get much sleep last night. :o)
Posted by: sammyscooge at February 21, 2009 10:45 AM
Sammy, Good for you. I should complain also I suppose just for the heck of it. I knew that had to be what was going on when I started reading. What is amazing is there could be that many people who read Huffington that could write anything approaching positive about Scarborough. He is a horrible person.
Besides, it is a total mystery to me how he can have the job at all. Not only is he a terrible broadcaster but his leaving Congress mid-term is so questionable,especially when he constantly refers to his time in Congress like that gives him credibility! Why is his resignation never an issue?
Posted by: JDS at February 21, 2009 11:21 AM
It seems Huffpost is morphing into this center right cyber rag...whats up with that?
Posted by: cminri at February 21, 2009 11:38 AM
Amen to that Nano!
In addition, it's a little strange to me that Joe (and conservatives in general) trumpet their love of and deference to "individual rights," as if it were really that simple. By 'individual rights,' of course, they mean 'economic rights' - they only want economic rights to not be interfered with by the state.
The next time you hear a conservative making this ludicrous claim, ask them to reconcile their stance on individual economic rights with their policy of systematic and widespread interference with individual rights as applied to personal civil liberties in almost any context (the one exception being gun rights).
The few who actually understand what you're talking about will get very uncomfortable and/or angry.
Posted by: rogect8 at February 21, 2009 11:41 AM
The constant reference and alignment with the Founders is getting a little old. The country is so far removed from what it was at it's founding, I think it's a bit silly for him to consider this a debate between Jeffersonians and Hamiltonians. I mean really. Do we refer to civil rights as debate between Lincolnians and Davisonians?
Some of the Founders had extremely progressive ideas for their time. The best way to venerate them is to continue to push ideas that are progressive for our time.
Posted by: Nanotyrannus at February 21, 2009 10:39 AM
^ most intelligent comment I've read this week
Thom Hartmann and Joe Scarborough refer to the 18th century when they discuss modern conditions. It's troubling. Jefferson himself claimed that many of the beliefs that applied to his era would be irrelevant in future decades. Hell, it's why Madison and Jefferson recognized the need for "the living, breathing document" (The Constitution) to be amended as time progressed. This simple allowance has separated us from "backward countries," and it's why the U.S. Consitution is the oldest constitution of any major country.
... BUT THEN REAGAN CAME ALONG AND DESTROYED IT ALL.
I kid.
Posted by: MG at February 21, 2009 12:19 PM
Nano - you pegged it! Bravo!
Some of the Founders had extremely progressive ideas for their time. The best way to venerate them is to continue to push ideas that are progressive for our time.
Makes reading this blog worth it. I'm going to use that phrase, with your permission.
Thinking is better than spewing. Nano is better than Joe S.
Posted by: bjritz at February 21, 2009 1:22 PM
Bob -
I think you misunderstood. He meant George Jefferson, not Thomas.
Posted by: SillyGit at February 21, 2009 1:51 PM
I think you misunderstood. He meant George Jefferson, not Thomas.
...And Margaret Hamilton, not Alexander.
Posted by: Broadway Carl at February 21, 2009 3:00 PM
You're headed down a dark path with this silly Scarborough obsession, Bob.
C'mon. Come back to us.
Remember Martin Sheen... circa 1979 ??
It's not pretty.
Posted by: Cody at February 21, 2009 3:47 PM
Cody wrote:
>>>You're headed down a dark path with this silly Scarborough obsession, Bob. C'mon. Come back to us.
Oh, so we're supposed to just walk away from a fight? Turn the other cheek? Not get "obsessed"?
This is why the far-right can so easily dominate a debate. STAND UP AND FIGHT! Goddammit. I don't mean to yell at you, Cody, but this is ridiculous.
Posted by: Bob Cesca at February 21, 2009 4:07 PM
I would have thought 5 or 6 different examples of "Joe the Ass" posts thus far.... to be a pretty good battle.
You've more than made your point.
The rest just resembles a dare I say it... "peepee dance".
Just sayin'.
Posted by: Cody at February 21, 2009 4:42 PM
Morning Joe is my favorite thing to throw a shoe at too.
But it's not like he's gonna re-engage you.
I wish it were so, but it's not happenin.
And he's not dominating anything as far as I can see.
Posted by: Cody at February 21, 2009 4:48 PM



