Glenn Greenwald had an excellent piece on jim Webb here: http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/03/28/webb/

It's a great piece. Here's a great quote from the piece:

In many cases these issues involve people’s ability to have proper counsel and other issues, but there are stunning statistics with respect to drugs that we all must come to terms with. African-Americans are about 12% of our population; contrary to a lot of thought and rhetoric, their drug use rate in terms of frequent drug use rate is about the same as all other elements of our society, about 14%. But they end up being 37% of those arrested on drug charges, 59% of those convicted, and 74% of those sentenced to prison by the numbers that have been provided by us. . . .

As an African-American, you might assume I'm therefore all for legalization. But - unless and until we have a comprehensive reform, that includes consequence management and treatment, I'm NOT. Part of the reason is right there: 14% of the population are inconvenienced by having their personal preference (drug use) be illegal. Meanwhile, quite a more substantial number of people are impacted by inadequate health care. Am I willing to derail health care reform to have a legalization fight? No. Moreover - am I absolutely convinced that legalization can be done in a manner that genuinely takes into account all issues? No (it seems we can't even agree that there are any issues to consider, as many in the legalization crowd want to insist that there's absolutely NOTHING to worry about - an absolutist position that means we aren't even talking). And, do I believe that the incarceration rate for African Americans will be equalized if drugs aren't the convenient excuse? No. Mo, I do not.

For once, I agree with Bob over you on this one Lee. There are legitimate issues, but asking Obama to prioritize this rather low-priority issue when he's already done the prudent thing and ceased persecuting medical marijuana users, is not something I can endorse on any level.

QT

QuenTiye

More people would be impacted for the positive if they would stop eating non-nutrient dense food.

Getting healthcare for everyone is great. I'm all for it, but the fact of the matter is the healthcare system as it is can never be fixed until people stop ingesting overly processed foods; until they start rewarding people who make healthy choices, not cultural choices like Lee seems to make and rationalize away.

Peter:

We agree.

QT

I'll repeat what I said befor ....this is not Obamas agenda and I am fine with that. But let's start the discussion...

While I do not disagree with your basic points QT, I do have to point out that you are very disingenuously conflating cannabis use with overall illegal drug use. When we are talking about the legalization of cannabis, statistics about crack, heroin, methamphetamine, and oxycontin are not pertinent. The last statistics I saw said that 40% of Americans use cannabis, 40% don't care if people use it, and 20% freak out if you mention it. The other statistics have no bearing in this discussion.

OK, SillyRatfacedGit: Since we agree on basic points, let me clarify - the stats are Jim Webb's, and I assumed they were overall illegal drug use including marijuana, because, after all, marijuana is still classified as such.

Notwithstanding - with the exception of medical marijuana - there is no necessity to use marijuana (and if there is, that's a problem, yes?). Given the potential of the marijuana discussion to derail other more important pov, I'm just not feeling it.

Lee: your "update" made it appear that you'd changed your mind on whether or not this should be a current issue on Obama's plate. I apologize if I misunderstood.

QT

Bob is dead right on this one!

Pot should be legal! But this is the wrong time!

Two wars! Economic recovery! Health care reform!

If we put pot legalization at the forefront we'll lose traction on everything else!

Hopefully the Holder Justice Dept will put BS like sending Tommy Chong to jail on the back burner, but let's deal with the worst first!

Let's get Obama a second term! then he can address something like this!

Well, I'm sure Bob and I will get into it tonight.

It directly relates to both healthcare and ecnomic recovery, too...

I am glad you will be talking about this tonight, Lee and Bob. I am a card carrying member of MPP and receive updates from SafeAccess. At least once a week I am either signing petitions or writing letters in favor of decriminalizing medical marijuana. I was upset by President Obamas brushing off of the most asked question on the online town hall meeting. After all, it was these very people who proved to be a large voting block for him.

Perhaps it is up to the states to move forward with this. I live in Maryland and we have started the process. But there are still no legal dispensaries or protection from the DEA. My husband is 63 and has undergone treatment for glaucoma. He is disabled, on multiple pharmaceuticals to help his chronic pain (AT a very high price, I might add) but nothing pharmaceutically helps him with his depression except marijuana. For obvious reasons, we are unable to safely purchase this much needed medication. He has undergone one laser surgery already for the pressure in his eyes from his glaucoma, but this did not last long. The pressure is back, and this pressure is exactly what marijuana helps with. We are very frustrated. Thank you again for speaking out.

I read somewhere today that many little kiddies are crushing up their Ritalin and Adderall (which are LEGAL amphetamines that public school officials try to push you into getting for your child especially if you have a little boy who isn't a zombie)and then snorting it. AND VOILA! The kiddies have cocaine, and it's perfectly legal.

Ady - I'm not sure I get your point. Are you saying that the fact that kids can find all sorts of ways to get high means that we ought not regulate any means of getting high?

I'm reasonably certain that what you describe is not "perfectly legal." If parents knowingly let their children abuse prescription drugs, they get the priviledge of no longer being in custody of their children.

QT

The parents do not know that the drugs are being abused. Ritalin and Adderall are overprescribed. The drugs are obtained legally. That is the point. The abuse is there with a legal drug.

Most drug abuse in the U.S. is with legally obtained pharmaceuticals. This drug abuse swamps the abuse from illegal drugs. To point at abuse of illegal drugs as bad without recognizing that abuse of legal drugs is a much larger problem is an absurd setting of priorities.

I'm sorry QT. I was in a hurry so I didn't really finish my point, yikes! What I was attempting to say is that drugs like Ritalin and Adderall are "perfectly legal" drugs which are so chemically similar to cocaine that it's difficult to discern between the legal medications and cocaine in some less sensitive drug tests. Kids crush them up and snort them behind the backs of their parents, of course. I don't know of any parent who would allow their kid to do that. In fact, when the nurses at the schools administer these drugs, some kids hide the pills under their tongues or in the backs of their throats and then snort them later. Oh, this article also reported that some middle and high school students are easily purchasing, using and abusing high doses of dextromethorphan which is a cough suppressant found in virtually all over the counter cough syrups.

>>Are you saying that the fact that kids can find all sorts of ways to get high means that we ought not regulate any means of getting high?

No, not at all. But given what I learned and mentioned above, the whole argument about NOT legalizing marijuana b/c it would be easier for children to obtain it, is no longer a valid point to me.

Git, thanks for clarifying that for me...my second comment may still not make sense b/c I didn't sleep much last night. Hmm...

OK. I still don't get it. Every pharmaceutical can be abused - prescription drug abuse is a known crime (see: Limbaugh, Rush). In this thread, or if not, in Bob's, I've clearly differentiated between medicinal use of marijuana and recreational use. The fact that some kids abuse drugs prescribed for them or OTC drugs is largely irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Kids also sniff glue and Sharpies. Of course, neither glue nor magic markers exist for sniffing, and Ritalin and other ADD drugs don't exist for getting kids high.

Perhaps I'm missing the point or perhaps maryjane advocates are deliberately skewering the debate to one that suits them better. To be clear, let me spell out the principles I work with:

1. I think our culture, with its overly materialistic outlook yields unhappy people who want to alter reality at an emotional level - hence a tendency toward mood-altering substances outside of any meaningful context but pleasure-seeking.

2. I think that pleasure-seeking through mood-altering substance is almost always negative. I do believe there are times when it is necessary - but those times are contextualized medicinal (or ritual) experiences.

3. Because mood-altering outside of context is inherently (I believe) dangerous, all such instances should be regulated, and safety net processes need to be in place before the necessarily limiting factor of criminalization is removed.

4. Because innocent bystanders are regularly hurt by those close to them who participate in mood-altering substance use, legal structures protecting the innocent need to be beefed up.

That's my position.

QT

And I respect your position, QT. But I believe in the individuals right to make the choice. In my husband's case, I pray every day the law will change. And I will do everything possible that I can to make this change.

QT, I actually agree with you. But saying that marijuana should not be legalized because it somehow makes it easier for kids or minors to get their hands on it, is no longer a valid argument for me b/c of the reasons I listed in my previous 2 comments. That doesn't mean there are no valid arguments against legalization.

QT, my life has also been affected by the drug abuse of an immediate family member who just permanently lost custody of her son last October due to cocaine addiction.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{AdyLeigh}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

That story is all too familiar. For the record - if your family member can find their way into treatment and put together at least a solid year clean and sober - there's hope that she will get her son back. It can happen, but she's got to get clean.

QT

midad: I didn't want to overlook your remarks. I'm not opposed to legalization/decriminalization - IF it can be done right. I've only ever seen that discussion of doing it "right" leads nowhere, as many want to argue that there are no consequences to marijuana use - a position I personally think is dishonest.

If your husband is using marijuana medicinally - I hope for his sake and yours that some means of legalized marijuana is approved where you are.

QT

QT -

I agree. It is more complicated than just the simple step of legalization. Many other aspects must also be addressed.

My biggest problem with drugs being illegal is that addiction is a health/medical problem not a criminal one. I agree with Lee that all drugs should be legalized mostly because it is unconstitutional to deny an individual the right to decide for themselves what to introduce into their body. The controlled substances act is not constitutional in my opinion.

In the case of cannabis, it medicinal uses must be allowed immediately. It should be moved from Schedule I to Schedule II so that Doctors can prescribe it right now.

This is a topic that can't be discussed briefly and do it justice.

Thanks QT. Unfortunately, he has to do without now. I am hopeful this will change.