I think Jesse should be allowed to waterboard Joe in order to see what he really knows about Lori Klausutis.

Bob I cannot take these guys anymore. They truly are the treasonous bastards and cowardly villians. Jesse should just jump onto the set and piledrive him right there on live TV. There is no way to get through to these guys. This generation is done. We need to work on the next generation, the children. We need to break the cycle and start over. The President's Notre Dame speech should be required viewing before anyone watches the American Idol finale. Maybe then we can start to break through the real life matrix we are all living in...Sorry IM rambling I am just so pissed off and can't think properly right now...

Perfect, Bob! You nailed it. I'm glad you're a sentry on that wall :-) Joe's an idiot and whether he knows anything about Lori Klausutis or not, he should be waterboarded just for his douchebaggery and numbnuttedness! Of course by waterboarded I mean drawn and quartered.

Phuck, glad to see you posting in here, dude!

Let's all go to Scarborough's house, steal all his shit, and give it to charity. It seems like it would be in line with his views on the law.

I hate being put in a position where I have to defend Scarborough, but the Klausutis business is unfounded. Let's talk about what Joe is saying -- there's plenty to discuss re: torture without getting into that topic.

Seriously. Any more Klausutis comments will be deleted. Let's stay on topic.

Good post here, Bob. But I also think we should stop using the argument that torture puts our troops in danger.

It's not true. You have to understand that a regime will use torture as a political tool, not as a means for revenge. As for the insurgents or terrorists? Well, we already know what they do, Bob. They decapitate, beat, cut off limbs, or just plain kill unarmed innocents.

From their perspective, torture makes perfect sense, and they are not squeamish about it at all. The Japanese tortured our US Soldiers without provocation; they did it to show their soldiers that Americans were just as weak as every other human, and because they viewed any non-Japanese person as a barabarian.

The argument that torture endangers our troops is no more true than the argument that releasing photos of prisoner abuse will endanger soldiers. It's all just rhetoric, and it's all worthless.

Real soldiers know what endangers us.

We call them Presidents, Senators, and Congresscritters.

Great post! I sat this morning and watched how Scarborough once again minimized someone's else's point of view by accusing them being under the influence of something, just being dumb and ridicule. Further, the moment that someone had an intelligent debate he asserted that he "knows" if torture worked and anyone else is just speculating via their left-wing nuttery. Joe is a sad moron. The truth is that most credible intelligence analysts know that torture doesn't work, but that is the part of the smaller picture. Justifying the means by the end doesn't hold up to international laws and treaties not to even speak of our moral obligations. I am sure if we pulled fingernails out or other extreme torture techniques might "work"...but... it's illegal. I hope that the conversations about Pelosi and Cheney continue to keep the topic in media mainstream. Politicians need reminded wevotedforyou!!!

Was just over at Think Progress and they had up the clip of Joe challenging Carlos and making the statement about Jesse Ventura, who btw is going to be on Ed's Show tonight.. Can't miss it..

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Scarborough is a loud mouthed chickenhawk who would never allow himself to be close enough to the danger that comes with serving in the military to understand how stupid his statement and his stance on torture really is. He is the classic example of the "I support the Troops" crowd who think that putting a magnet on their car is all it takes. What an unpatriotic cunt. Fits right in comfortably with Bush, Cheney, and their group of America haters.

Annette -- You're awesome, but I had to edit your comment. I just don't think it helps us to go there.

Why does Joe keep saying torture works when Ali Soufan says it doesn't?

>>>>>"Perhaps Jesse should stop smoking whatever Jesse's been smoking and keep his mouth shut about things he knows absolutely nothing about."

If that's the way Joe looks at it then perhaps he should do the same.

Joe has convinced himself he knows everything. I doubt reason can reach him by this point.

ppp, you forgot Generals, the Pentagon, and lowest bidder wins federal arms contracts.

Here's another reason we used to not torture: Enemy combatants are more likely to surrender if they think they won't be tortured as a result. (See Nazis! being taken prisoner in droves by U.S. troops and not so much by the Russians.)

Why oh why did MSNBC hire that blowhard for the morning slot over Stephanie Miller? Joe Scarborough is just another polluter of the airways.

It wasn't my comment.. just repeating what I read from someone else.. not a problem Bob.. you have to do what you feel is right.. I have no problem with that.

Never apologize for doing the correct thing. Please, not to me anyway. I do understand. No offense taken in anyway.

Why does Joe keep saying torture works when Ali Soufan says it doesn't?

@phuckpolitics Because he says Ali Soufan lied. You see in Joe's world FBI agents can and do lie, even under sworn testimony, but CIA people do not even when they aren't sworn and just making off hand remarks.

@Annette: Not only that, but Ali lied b/c he is JEALOUS of the CIA. Uh huh.

Yes, sorry, I forgot that part of his craziness..lol

Joe kept saying he was getting info from CIA agents and from his friends in Congress.. or something to that effect. If it could be proved he is getting intelligence data, from either source, would that not be a breach and a crime?

I realize it is all just blow hard talk, but I really wish someone would really call him on it. Where is Lawrence O'Donnell when we need him. Of course Carlos tried, but Joe just shouts him down, he hasn't been around long enough to challenge him.

No one else will challenge him because of the MSNBC family thing. Which is so stupid. Before Rachel got her show, she would challenge him. Now she won't take him on anymore. Even Ed, won't take him on on his show, he will do it on the Radio, but not on his TeeVee show.

I guess they are afraid they will get canceled or something.

Bob,

It's funny Joe compared you to a third grader when he should be on "Are you smarter than a 5th grader."

You have to understand that a regime will use torture as a political tool, not as a means for revenge.

PPP, I don't think the point is for revenge. It's about holding the moral high ground. We can't be outraged if one of our soldiers gets captured and tortured if we do the same.

@Annette - Now I understand. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

I think you understood perfectly well...lol But that's fine, I am always glad to help out.

I love how Joe getting info from the CIA and congress is valid, but Jesse Ventura getting info FROM HIS OWN LIFE is somehow suspect. Logic: ur doin it rwong.

Another mistake found in CIA briefing notes, from Greg Sargent

Rep David Obey: CIA incorrect in another representation about the classified briefings of Congress http://bit.ly/j5D6r

Joe is an ignorant coward. He's never served a day in his life (like myself) so who the hell is he to advocate FOR torture (that's what he's doing). 4-5 years ago, if anyone disagreed with veterans you would be considered unamerican. While I'm VERY HAPPY that this is not the case today, Joe's comments regarding Ventura are just plain remedial.

Why do republicans hate common sense?

He's gone for the John McCain theory of logic: I will continue to state that I know things without explaining to you how I know. And you are not allowed to argue with my knowledge, because I have said I know very firmly and loudly.

No one else will challenge him because of the MSNBC family thing. Which is so stupid. Before Rachel got her show, she would challenge him. Now she won't take him on anymore. Even Ed, won't take him on on his show, he will do it on the Radio, but not on his TeeVee show.

I guess they are afraid they will get canceled or something.

I don't think it's because of the fear of The Scar. Besides, we all know that he runs crying to mommy when his feeling get hurt.

I think it just makes for better employment politics to not trash the guy that works in the same office as you do. Otherwise, he'd be a daily segment on Countdown's Worst Persons. And I guess it would get pretty boring with Scar, Hannity and O'Reilly as the only three worst persons EVERY SINGLE NIGHT.

Wait a sec...let me get this straight: Joe Scarborough...says Jesse Ventura (Navy Seal, graduate of SERE school)...doesn't know what he's talking about vis torture.

I suppose that ought not surprise me...and I guess it doesn't.
Just another thing to add to the list for when I am eventually asked the question by police, "Why did you grab Mr. Scarborough by the ears and nuts, throw him down and stomp on his head?"
Why? You wanna know why? How much time you got?
Whatever Jesse is smoking, Joe should roll some up.
Ventura has been making the rounds, and thus far (aside from Christopher Hitchens) he's the ONLY one who knows what the fuck he's talking about.
For shits and giggles, you can YouTube up JV's recent appearance on The View: Jesse "The Body" versus Hasselbeck "The Brainless"...are you ready to RUMBLE?

I know what you are saying BC.. and I agree somewhat, but when he is over the top stupid as he has been, and you and I both know of the times I am talking about... why and how can they just ignore it?

Then for his "co-host" to write an editorial to the NY Times and call herself a "Liberal" just goes beyond the realm of believability. How anyone can call themselves a liberal and sit there like she does and never challenge anything he says. Give. Me. A. Break.

Carl, I'm picking up on your brainwaves or something. I was just thinking that maybe Scarborough's behavior today would warrant a Worst Person in the World from Keith, but I don't think I've ever seen one about Joe.

It would be interesting though, to see Rachel take him on, on neutral ground perhaps. She'd rip him to pieces. She'd argue from evidence that's been revealed and he argue from what he's be told by people that support the program.

And just what the fuck is Mika's function?

Hey did ya'll see Ventura on Hannity last night? He checked Hannity, on his own show. Hannity couldn't handle someone who had an actual counter detail argument against his craziest, and cut the interview short. Some of the highlights:

Ventura got him to say the US is better now than b/f Bush.

Hannity said this is Obama recession not Bush's, and implied Bush didn't create this recession, but Bush a inherited a recession from Clinton.

9/11 was Clinton's fault not Bush, 9/11 didn't happen on Bush's watch and its all Clinton's fault b/c of the USS Cole attack.

Usually can't watch more than 5 mins. of Hannity but this was pure comedy.

Bob;
Scarbie just thinks he's a superior being and intellect who has a TV show...

In short, a schmuck.

[Edited by admin. You guys rule, but like I wrote earlier: we don't want to go there.]

Hes a fucking coward. Jesse could probably snap his neck in a split second. Infact; I would pay to see that.

What a fucking poor excuse for a man. Joe should be ashamed for being such a childish dickless little pissant.

I wish MSNBC would just drop Joe in the morning and go to a real morning show - one that covers a wide array of news that people in this busy world needs before starting the day. I switched over to CNN this morning (and I can't stand CNN and their constant self-promotion). During day 109282 of Joe's nonstop Pelosi/CIA coverage, in an hour on CNN I heard about not only Pelosi, but also Rumsfeld, Handicap kids, that Gallup poll, and a bunch of other things.

Hey - after saying that, I just came up with Joe's problem. He has A.D.D.!

when he is over the top stupid as he has been, and you and I both know of the times I am talking about... why and how can they just ignore it?

It could very well be orders from the top.

Joe has got to go. Soon I hope.

haha I think thats the first time ive ever managed to get censored.

Seriously though... it all adds up to me. The doors of the closet hiding the skeletons are completely transparent.

I really wish they would get rid of this assclown. I like MSNBC and I would prefer to watch it during the day over CNN, but at this moment I simply can't stand it. MSNBC will remain offline for me until Ed at 6pm until they get rid of Joe.

Something tells me that sentiment isn't isolated. Is Joe bad for business? They could probably double their morning ratings if they had someone on there who isn't a jackass. I would turn it on in the morning if say... Shuster were on.

>>haha I think thats the first time ive ever managed to get censored.

Sorry, my friend. I'd rather we nail him on his wrongness and asshattery.

Doucheborough is a complete and total waste of skin.

Mr. My-opinions-are-better-than-facts has made a career out of being a right wing troll. He is guilty of all of the following Right Wing Troll traits:

Well. I thought I was going t paste a couple or three of the ten here, but he actually has all ten traits of a right wing troll. Follow the link above to see the list of all ten.

Doucheborough is a perfect ten right wing troll.

And he is neatly situated in a spot that keeps his asshattery from being surgically picked apart by three people very expert at it.

I think he knows he can go completely nuts and avoid being called on it by his "colleagues."

I have had at Joe here.

An excerpt:

5. There are documents which prove the effectiveness of torture. Secret documents that show how utterly fucked we would have been if we didn’t torture the evil doers to learn their dark secrets.
Documents written by torturers, following torture directed by Dick Cheney. All we need to see are the declassified documents generated by the people who had been instructed to violate the law by the Commander in Chief.
“Whatcha up to, Frank?”
“Oh, just filling the daily reports.”
“How’d it go?”
“Lotsa screamin’ and cryin’, pain and humiliation. Made a raghead jerk off in front of snarling dog.”
“Get any good intel?”
“Learned he ain’t all that aroused by dogs.”
“Whaddya puttin’ in the report?”
“Just what the doctor ordered. Discovered a funded attack planned by those Muslim fucks they tailing in Seattle. Some stuff about chemical weapons and anthrax. Some other stuff…you know the drill. There was a new memo today – it’s mostly copy and paste.”

Hey just saw the last segment of joe from this morning. Yo Bob Arum shut up not only guliani, but scarborough as well. He gave detail examples of when the CIA lied, then ask Rudy can u say the CIA never lied, and then Arum proceeded to call him out when he went into campaign rhetoric. Fabulously absolutely hilarious.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036789/#30823556

Even Joe shut his mouth about it.

I just wish that Carlos has simply mentioned that if they were wrong about Senator Graham, Senator Rockefeller and Nancy Pelosi, that he'd have to admit that they are not credible. I really can't stand Scarborough. I've gotten my sister hooked as well. We only watch it to see if there's anyone who will call him out on his lies and distortions. He really is an idiot and so is his Star Search Spokesmodel Mika. She's just awful. As a woman, just once I'd like to see her stand up to this clow as well. Let's see if he even mentions David Obey tomorrow or the news about Hoekstra.

PPP, you're thinking at the tactical level again. While you're correct that the people we're currently fighting couldn't care less about law and treating people humanely, The US using torture does increase the danger we face if ever in conflict with another Nation.

How are we ever going to object to being subjected to torture again?

Send Ventura on Morning Douche and let him slap him around for a while.

I just can't listen to that idiot anymore.

How about we waterboard Joe until he tells us the truth about the dead girl in his Congressional office?