Liz has a dad who's a war criminal. Who could have known?

I had to turn it off it was so disgusting. And yeh, they need to change the show to Morning Mika and Friends.

West Wing reruns are more appealing than this drivel.

Shut the f up lady.
She never stopped talking, points...

Uhh

I am so sick of hearing these ridiculous arguments.

Lix brought up the commonly used 'Ticking Bomb Scenario'. I don't watch the show, but I gather they use this technique on '24' all the time.

The 'Ticking Bomb Scenario' is a myth. I have yet to see a single documented real life example where our intelligence services did such a shitty job, that they have only one suspect in custody while a nuke or something is about to kill thousands of people.

But even if they did, do they really believe this committed suicidal mouth breather isn't going to lie to them and send them off on a wild turd hunt?

If this person is willing to die for their cause (like those that attacked us on 9-11) don't you think it would occur to them to simply lie? They may be radical extremist but that doesn't mean they are so stupid they can't figure this little trick out.

The thousands of Americans still die, the terrorist goes to their reward with the 72 virgins and whatnot, and we of course have sold our souls. Talk about a win-win for the bad guys.

Oh and of course the terrorist's martyrdom in the face of the evil infidels will be a huge boost for their recruiters.

And lets get to the bottom line: Torture is evil behavior. Period, end of story. If you engage in it FOR ANY REASON, you are evil.

I think there are already plenty of evil fuckers in the world, let's not join them.

These imbeciles are literally fitting the role of every cliche pertaining to becoming what they fear the most. They are staring into the abyss that stares back at them. They've lived long enough to see themselves become villains.

I will not accept ANY explanation they have to justify what they did. I find it hysterical that they waver on calling their acts torture and EIT. Completely predictable, and utterly reprehensible. Their pleas for complete vindication in spite of the evidence prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are human specimens. A bunch of fucking chumps, but still, all too human.

Cheney...I'm beginning to pity that man. Where Bush 43 always appeared confused, Cheney appears very stressed at all times. There's not a disparaging remark that I can say about the men that won't read like I'm attempting to be provocative for the sake of being such. I really have sympathy for him and GWB. They are both pitiful. I know how much the guilt is eating away at the both of them. This "history will see vindicate them" bullshit is a declarative fool's plea to the fabric of time itself. Historical facts are not to be meddle with by obvious charlatans.

On the other hand, the partisan sycophants they surrounded themselves with can kiss my black ass. The reality they refuse to acknowledge was encapsulated in the Republicon National Convention of '08, where neither Cheney or GWB showed up in person to bask in glory of eight years of efficient governance. They gave shame-ridden taped speeches that aped the sentiments of their pinheaded minions within the swine media sphere. PATHETIC!

These Republicon bozos were waiting on Sarah Palin (not John Sidney McCain) to make them feel better about themselves. Mrs. Palin was up for the job, which is why to this day, I offer somewhat muted support for Palin's endeavors, despite disagreeing with three quarters of her mixed messages. She really did yeoman's work at that silly convention of theirs. I admire her for her tenacity, if not her politics. I'm sure she'd agree with what the Bush Administration enabled, not that that means anything to the opportunist. Palin seems more interseted in domestic affairs, and was in over her head trying to sound like one of the immoderate fuddy-duddies that dominate her party. She's made enemies on our side, and sure, she's prone to being used like a puppet (like GWB), but since she won't get anywhere near the WH, I'm sure some of you will allow me the privilege of complimenting the enemy just a little bit.

Damn, did I go off track or what.

I'm just tired of this "torture" debate, because it's not really a "debate." It's a guilty party attempting to weasel out of taking responsibility for their actions rhetorically. This whole discussion on EIT or whatever they're calling them is retarded (no offense to the mentally handicapped), and has been from the moment it got underway in early '04.

Not that I'm discouraging anyone from discussing the matter openly. I'm just saying that the arguments FOR torture are asinine from jump, and those who go on to argue in support of our torturing individuals ought to be ridiculed and shamed professionally, not just referred to in a catty, sarcastic manner. Examples must be made of these duckspeaking chowderheads like Scumborough and Cheney's daughter. They aught not be taken seriously on ANY subject.

Liz Cheney shredded Eugenie. He had to consent that he has not read all the memos and half his truths are based on conjecture and liberal and MSM talking points. Liz, you are one smart sweetie, isn't that right Obama. Love to see her debate The One. LIZ 2012

I'm also tired of the debate.

The Democrats are in charge now. There is only one thing that can be changed, and that is what is done from this point forward. The way to ultimate vindication is to show the same results with our humane methods as Bush did with torture. Then ALL arguments are gone forever, there is no hiding behind ANYTHING. End of story.

"Liz Cheney: "We didn't know anything about al-Qaeda" on 9/12. Seriously."

Uh ......... yeah, because you're a bunch of dumb asses!

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/09/25/wag-the-dog/

***Ignores the obvious troll***

>>>There are a lot of things that could "work" to "keep us safe." A wide variety of immoral deeds and sinister weapons.

Fucking exactly. We could make a godamn parking lot out of the entire middle east before noon today. It would be no problem at all, and it would completely solve the issue of terrorism. Doesn't mean it's okay to do it. The very reason for the existence of the rule of law in areas like this is to AVOID community bloodlust.

Godamn, these fear-mongerers piss me off...they think everyone should be as chicken-shit as they are. Which is ironic, since they tend to live in the areas of the country that terrorists are least likely to attack.

Liz Cheney shredded Eugenie. He had to consent that he has not read all the memos and half his truths are based on conjecture and liberal and MSM talking points. Liz, you are one smart sweetie, isn't that right Obama. Love to see her debate The One. LIZ 2012

I don't need a fucking memo to determine that torture is wrong.

She was condescending as hell towards Gene Robinson. "now, Eugene..."
and I'm pretty sure ELIZABETH Cheney didn't read all the memos, either. If she had, that would be another crime to add to the Cheney legacy.
As to us not knowing anything about al Qaeda on 9/12 - au contraire. The Clinton Admin knew a whole helluva lot, but they were accused of wagging the dog and BushCo ignored the info that was passed on to them. They didn't know? Who the fuck's fault is that??

Torture is a criminal act under our laws, international laws, and under treaty obligations.

Torture is a criminal act. Period.

People that that approve using torture are war criminals.

These are irrefutable facts. Everything else is rationalization of criminal acts.

War Criminal Cheney belongs in a court room answering criminal charges. His daughter is defective in her thinking. There is no excuse ever for criminal acts.

There is no argument, there is nothing to debate. Arrest these war criminals now.

Nah, let's not ignore the goddamned troll that was stupid enough to come here to taunt like a wimp.

This whole "debate" on behalf of the "enhanced interrogation techniques" is an example of CONJECTURE - a huge assumption completely based on an unfounded fear. These imbeciles are oblivious to their own conduct. The whole matter is based on hypotheticals based on imbeciles watching flicks like Executive Decision too many times. These are supposed professionals sounding like layman in their assertions. Now, some people are stupid enough to buy the arguments offered by the charlatans, but others see right through the bullshit, and can see the ass-covering commencing.

They're insane, I tell you.

The taunting ignoramus wants to be like the chumps on TV and radio. He feels that the practice of being the first to label someone in a negative context makes their argument more credible. A folly that right there.

This "discussion" is not one for a bunch of dingbat Republicons and vainglorious Democrats to gain political ground on. This is about what the fuck this country represents to the world at large. You now have flakes forsaking everything America has supposedly stood for just to win an imaginary debate. What the fuck is going on here? Do we even stand for anything anymore, or is it simply dog eat dog.

Now before some moron even attempts to pull some mock pessimism on Lexaburn, understand that that is an endeavor you will ultimately lose. I am fully aware that America is full of faulty humans prone to seeking the easiest way out of a predicament, and with that, every once in a while, we forsake our principles for a temporary ego boost. We are humans before we are Americans.

But this political gamesmanship is getting ridiculous, and damn it, it is coming completely from the GOPussy side. I've observed this damned thing for eight fucking years. All these petty squabbles come from the side that is of no value to anyone if its isn't precluding some perceived threat, real or imagined. That comes from the right. When they're not talking about how scared they are of every-damned-thing under the sun, they're puffing out their chests attempting to intimidate someone like a fake-ass Bluto from the Ppeye cartoons. People are absolutely sick of their bullshit.

At ease!

Now...Let the little "teapot" come back to spill more of its idiotic contents on this forum, and someone (perhaps myself) may go through the trouble of breaking its ass into little tiny pieces.

Needless to say, no one will need EIT or torture to belittle a mental midget teapot.

Liz 2012 - Sounds great! Please please please let the dumbasses run someone with a name as toxic as CHENEY.

things republicans support...

1)torture
2)tax cuts for the wealthiest americans
3)rush limbaugh

things republicans are against...

1)tougher punishment for criminals,racists,homophobes who commit hate crimes
2)tax cuts for poor/middle class americans who need it most
3)colin powell

things republicans believe are imaginary...

1)climate change
2)hate crimes

>>things republicans believe are imaginary...
1)climate change
2)hate crimes

3)evolution

Liz uses Dick's speaking style to nice effect. She's got his same slightly askew facial angle, rather than facing straight ahead. It's like they're trying to pry their way into your brain.

Try it in the mirror. It's creepy.

What techniques do you suggest be used?

My husband hates lima beans. If he were forced to subsist on a lima bean diet, would that be torture?

What are we supposed to do; a questionnaire that the detainees fill out to let us know what condcut they would consider to be torture? Otherwise, how will we know if we are torturing the poor man?

@jen - They're called "laws." Perhaps you've heard of them.

Dumbass.

Jen,

Here's something you can use that will work:

Let's say a combatant is captured in an area where "evil" is ocurring, and we are there to stop the evil. This combatant has info that can help us stop it, but is being "uncooperative".

So, you sit him down at a nice table, with a nice chair, and a nice drink. Then, you pull out pictures of his family members, very recent pictures, in fact. You show them to him, one by one, slowly, so that he is sure to notice where the pictures were taken and when.

Then you leave the pictures with him. You make absolutely no threats. You make no suggestions. You say nothing else; you simply leave his imagination to do the work for you.

It will take about an hour of him alone with those pictures before he is begging you to let him tell you everything he knows.

They may not care what happens to themselves, but those pictures tell them that what they are doing will never just be about them. It sort of helps return them to humanity.

Palin/Cheney 2012
Two smart sweeties, right Mr. Obama!!

Why must con-servasses resort to lame bouts of sarcasm when discussing serious matters? It's not like that shit's going to confuse anyone.

The reason why you don't give detainees a questionnaire is the same reason no one goes into a battlefield armed with spitballs. You go ask the criminals why they needed to check with lawyers in order to chase wild geese, which is, ultimately, exactly what they were doing. The presumed plots that were foiled so far are nothing more than babble partisan hacks dredge up in order to intimidate folks into believing their lies. Shit, they must think we're all detainees or something.

Now if you want to argue interrogation methods, that's okay, but you idiots are not arguing that. You are arguing the ways in which someone is intimidated into revealing god-knows-what. It appears that their were no real queries involved and, really, those tortured appear to have dignified assertions that were already made. What, after being waterboarded for hours, a dude just picked a completely random terrorist event that was in the planning stages? If so, how could you tell he was giving credible info? If it all boiled down to a detainee confirming the suspicions of his tormentors, how do we know if any of it WAS NOT based on deluded theories?

Whatever...

The fact that half these imbeciles are referring to little brothers being picked on by older siblings shows that they know the shit that went down is unjustifiable. The Republicons just trying to normalize their abhorrent conduct again. As if bullying someone is justifiable in any respect.

Assholes, get this through your thick skulls: we are AMERICA! WE DO NOT [HAVE] TO TORTURE ANYONE!

We're not fucking Goldfinger, idiots!

Morons, the matter over mind bullshit you keep arguing for is not what your benefactors partook in, which is why they continue to argue that the methods they used supposedly "saved lives." They're trying every which way they can to normalize criminal conduct, the sick fucks.

Now the fools seek to switch the argument, saying that Cheney "strongly believed" in what he's saying (always verbatim). As if anyone gives a fuck about Cheney's deluded assertions enough to justify them. The media goons are seriously screwing a donut when they parrot the stupid shit the Bushies tell them to say.

Look, assholes, no matter how many deviant arguments you offer, there's no justifying what they did, and the continual talking out of multiple angles of your mouths only makes it more apparent that you know the shit was wrong.

Come here and taunt all you like, silly chumps, but know that some of us take your arguments as seriously as you do, dorks.

These detainees are either the scariest motherfuckers that ever walked the earth where they just HAD to be tortured, or the most pussified scared of getting a little wet, as the conservaknaves claim when they justify the EITs.

Which is it, conseraidiots?

C'mon and give two demented explanations for the same criminal shit some more, dorks.

And to the idiot with the Lima bean analogy...

The fact that you husband is a wimp before Lima beans has nothing to do with anything. If it was against the goddamned law to feed the fool lima beans, then someone needs to be prosecuted if a single Lima bean touched his tongue.

Now, let's say if they fed the punk dogshit instead of Lima beans, but told him it was the meal he dreads the most - then you'd have a point.

The pint some of us are making, though, is that this is not about no damned Lima beans. It's about the methods that were actually used. We've supposedly not heard EVERYTHING that pertains to these incidents. If not, then, perhaps, when more light is shed on the subject, perhaps one side or another can then claim to be right. But when dorks attempt to skirt around the issues with misdirected saracsm, that's when one has to call them on the bullshit.

Yes, let us all have a discussion on this EIT business. Let's call the bastard's bluff, why don't we. Two weeks ago, they were arguing AGAINST any investigation, and now since they figure they've implicated a few Dems on their crimes, they seek to play a game of chicken before the public like always.

Fuck it. Let there be light, and we'll see who did what for whatever reason.

However, it's laughable for you arguers for torture to presume we ought to treat you as credible, forsaking our own judgment, just because the Bushies beguiled you dumb bastards into accepting its deviant methods of "interrogation" as common.

It ain't going to happen. Nuff said!

Commence with more sissy taunts, chumps.

Is it torture to leave a born alive aborted baby in a linen closet to die on its own,gasping for air for 2 hours, and not calling in medical personnel to save it, but making sure it dies? No, of course not!!
Is it torture to partially birth a full term baby, and kill it with a screwdriver to the skull? No of course not!
Is it not torture to waterboard a baby in the womb with saline solution, and then kill it ? No, of course not.

Oh, so some knucklehead got some encouragement from Raggedy Ann, did she?

Is it torture to listen to or read a demented bitch devise various methods of disposing fetuses while she defends war criminals?

Not really, but close.

Why don't we just kill them on the battlefield, before they become detainees.

And if we miss finding a few terrorsts plots who cares?

'Cause most of them weren't on the "battlefield". Some of them - the worst of the worst - were 14 year old kids throwing rocks. Others were tangentially involved, not masterminds, not leaders, not even protagonists...they cooked or drove for the wages. Some were not involved at all, but had a neighbor who really wanted that reward for turning in "terrorists".

Torture is ILLEGAL. Period. It's against the law, it's against the Constitution. It's against everything this country stands for.
Throughout our history there have been brave men & women willing to die for their country. By trying to rationalize using torture, you are dishonoring their sacrifices & memories & are showing that those things they fought for & the US Constitution mean less than nothing to you. Good going. Especially because THEIR beliefs and convictions made it possible for you to state YOURS.

Isn't that cute? She lies shamelessly and constantly just like her dad! And she's got his sneer, too!

she is the epitome of 'being born on third base and thinks that she hit a triple.' why she is given any deference is shameless.

After 8 years of daddy issues, do we have this to look forward with her now? Please, Liz, go away. Daddy's a bad man. A really bad man.

I used to joke that whenever dick was pissed, gas prices would go up. Over the last few weeks he sure has seemed pissed... and, how much has gas gone up where you live?

They were much too polite with her while she was interrupting and filibustering for 7 fucking minutes. What complete and utter bullshit.

Well, the apple doesn't fall far from the torture loving douchebag.

If torture is against everything this country stands for, so is abortion. You libs need to start thinking logically. It's an outrage to stick some enemies head in water. But is perfectly legal and it is a right to pull a baby out of his mother most of the way and then kill it. No pain killer given. Just kill it and throw it in the trash. you all need to get a grip on life. when you see partial birth abortion as torturing a baby then we will discuss EITs

Hahahahahahahahahaha!!! Bob, haven't you done something to kick people off of this site for using multiple names and coming on here and trolling/spamming? I thought I remembered you saying something about that a couple weeks ago.

If so, you should check up on teapot, logicalgal, and thankgodforthecheneys...I strongly suspect they are the same asshole.

@ all 3 (or more likely, 1) of you assholes. On the very slim offchance that you're actually serious (though your comment that 'we don't give fetuses painkillers before we abort them' makes me think you're just trolling...though I suppose you could be a mentally handicapped individual instead):::::
Fetuses aren't people. They're fetuses. That's why they have that name. You assholes love to talk about interpreting the laws of this nation from an "originalist" or "strict constructionist" point of view right? Please direct me to where in the Constitution it explicitly states, or even suggests, that fetuses are considered "people" or "citizens" or any form of rights-receiving entity.

Oops, you're too dumb to understand what I'm talking about.

I wonder if democrats,including, Obama would condone torture to gain information which would save the life of THE ONE? I wonder if Obama would approve torture to save his own life? Let's have the investigations. I want to hear everyones answers.

rogect8,

actually "fetuses" do have protection in this nation. For example, if you punch a woman in the stomach after the second trimester, and the BABY dies as a result, you get charged with murder.

Just thought you should know, in case you were looking for a cheap way to abort your next "mistake".

Hello again. I think many of you missed the point about "lima beans". If you recall, one of the torture memos described a technique of putting an insect in a confined space with a detainee known to fear insects. The media decried this as torture. My point is, psychological torture is very subjective; I would gladly eat lima beans; my husband would vomit. I suspect that many people wouldn't care that much about insects. One man's torture can be another's inconvenience. So, how do we proscribe what is torture? I will appreciate a reasoned response.

partypooper

Babies are born. Until then and only after a significant amount of development takes place, it's a fetus. The law you speak of is not that old, and was put in place to address the added horror when a criminal kills a pregnant woman. And it is more emotionally horrible than killing a nonpregnant woman due to the lost potential. But it was an imperfect and very controversial fix that obviously, only caused more problems.

The law was based entirely on emotion, a thing that laws are supposed to rise above. There is no reasoned argument in favor of it.

But since you felt the need to bring it up, tell me the proper method for torturing a pregnant terrorist? What happens if water boarding a pregnant terrorist causes a miscarriage? Should the interrogator be charged with murder?

PS - The only reason these screachers bring up partial birth abortion - the least used method by a huuuuuge margin - beyond the obvious gross-out factor, is that their Bible has nothing to say about abortion, and furthermore states, a fetus doesn't even have a soul until quickening. That means that even if the Bible was the standard for setting laws in this country, pretty much all but partial-birth abortions would be legal.