As much of a pain in the ass individual mandates are they are completely necessary. If there was one thing that compels me to agree with them it is the stories of thousands of Americans who lost their homes or filed bankruptcy due to a catastrophic illness. True, individual plans suck, and most of them have high up front deductibles ($5,000), but I'd rather be five grand in the hole then facing foreclosure. The mandate is a safety net for the economy. People need to just accept that regardless of the give away it is to the insurance companies. I'm pissed about that too, but maybe people should look more to what's in their best interest long term rather than fuming about the already rich and greedy insurance companies. However, saying that in a catchy, bumper-sticker slogan is proving to be quite the challenge....

webdunce:

>>>As much of a pain in the ass individual mandates are they are completely necessary.

Oh I agree. They're just very hard to pitch in a sentence or two.

What worries me the most is the 2014 kick-in for some of it. Odds are we will lose seats in 2010 (just from historical perspective, party in WH usually loses some)....then what the hell do we do? I think the next step as suggested by Krugman and others is to get rid of this ridiculous 60 vote rule and go back to simple majority OR use the new rule proposed by Lieberdick and Harkin--try for 60, then try for 58, then 56, etc....

@Irish Girl - the problem with getting rid of the filibuster is that you will never have a party do it. Sure Frist threatened it a few years back, but he didn't do it. No matter what, both parties realize that a day will come when they will once again be the minority and that is the day they want the filibuster.

I just wish Harry Reid would actually force them to filibuster for once. Filibusters have soared to 70% by the Republicans because the Democrats have made them so easy to use.

Bob,
Kevin Drum and Paul Starr are wrong. The 2014 date is mostly about reaping the rewards politically of passing the bill while not having to take the blame if it isn't working.

I know that's a cynical way to look at it, but from my perspective, that's how the two parties do things.

Yes, it will be a pain in the ass because everyone will recognize that without the ability to purchase a public option or buy in to Medicare, all they get is a federal gun to their head to buy a poor value policy from for-profit insurers coupled with inadequate protection from the abuses that got us here. And, WTF... are we supposed to not care about the assualt on women's reproductive rights? Sorry, but I believe the Senate bill is damaged goods and represents the abandonment of the principles that Obama campaigned on.

gescove, the language in the bill right now amounts to a preservation of the status quo RE: federal $ for abortions.

As for the public option: you can pass one later through reconciliation, but you can't pass all the stuff that's in this bill that makes the public option work.

Furthermore, the public option isn't dead. Not hardly. There are already Senators talking about pursuing it in Spring.

Bob: how about this for selling mandates?

All insurance plans work by spreading the risk across as large a number of ratepayers as possible. This bill makes every American a rate-payer so that everyone's costs go down.

Matt:

Your thought only works in a competitive environment and that is not the case in the health insurance industry.

The costs to the insurers might go down but that benefit will not be passed on to the insured (consumers).

Matt:

It may be that the bill preserves the status quo regarding Federal funding of abortion. But doesn't the Nelson language require individuals who choose a health plan that includes abortion care to write two separate premium checks and require the insurers to deposit and account for them seperately? A cumbersome administrative requirement that accomplishes what, exactly? Certainly it doesn't help drive down costs.

I agree, the public option may not be dead, but it sure isn't because Obama has been its champion as he was during the campaign.

Osborne:

>>>>Bob: how about this for selling mandates?

Good suggestion, but potentially too wonky for a town hall crowd.