Well, yeah.

Where does anybody get the idea that because a program or policy is not passed or enacted now, that it can never be passed or enacted ever?

I still don't get the kill-billers. Unless they truly, honestly and sincerely believe that the current legislation will actually, substantially and perceptibly make things -worse- than they are now (and some of them do), there is no reason I can think of to believe that if this bill does NOT pass, we have any chance of getting any health reform in our lifetimes, let alone a -better- chance than we would have if it -is- passed.

If the exchanges don't go up until 2013, that means Congress still has 3 years to pass a public option and put it on the exchanges. What's so hard to grasp about that? Pass this bill now, add the public option or Medicare buy-in to the national exchange later.

Don't pass this bill now, lose Congress in the fall, lose the White House in 2012, and hope that President Palin and the GOP give us a public option? No, thank you.

I'm going to make the prediction right now...that if HCR passes in it's current state that many "kill-billers" will throw up their hands afterward and refuse to help with getting a public option. Why? Their excuse will be "we didn't get what we wanted the first time around so we're taking our toys and going home". And the best thing about it is, regardless of whether they helped or not, if we are able to get the PO added later, we can say 'told ya so'.

I've talked with bill-killers. They are dedicated to destroying anyone who votes for this bill. They are talking about raising funds to battle Democratic incumbents, or just voting Republican.

Like we've discussed previously; some people aren't happy unless they have something to complain about, or in some way, sabotage their own existence.

I agree with Irish Girl.

@PPP: that's hilarious.

Your last sentence was spot on Bob! I had my fill earlier this afternoon, so I posted exactly what you said in a comment on Hamsher's firebagger blog. They're praising Kucinich over there for standing up for his principals. Principals won't cover anyone.

Your last sentence was spot on Bob!

"No?"

;)

Bernie Sanders is on Ed Shultz right now and just said that the day after this bill is passed we can begin trying to get a public option. Great minds think alike.

the kill-billers have adopted the Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh ideology. That is, they believe they are only relevant if they are beating their chests and wailing and moaning.

Some just want the attention that being the angry activist gets them and others are, as already said, just not happy unless they are unhappy.

Courage!

John McCain, September 2008:

"The fundamentals of the economy are strong."

People should keep in mind that passing this bill or not passing it, with or without a public option - the fundamentals of the American Health Care Distribution system are fatally broken.

Was it a NY Times chart that showed America paying twice as much per patient than any other country for slightly below average performance? We're the country paying 16% of GDP for health care?? That's unsustainable under any measure, and reforms will have to come even if China has to hold a gun to our head over increasing debt.

The bill that is currently up for a final vote gives us a much better framework for beginning to overhaul the current system, and move more quickly, with less pain to something sustainable. Which will be a single-payer system. Because that's the most economically sane solution.

there are two separate issues here:

the bill-killers and the question of the PO

I agree the bill killers are not helpful at this point. they will make the process unnecessarily messy. this bill still leaves 20 million people uninsured, and the abolition of pre-existing conditions doesn't go into effect for 4 years. still, it is better than the present arrangement, though that isn't saying much.

But the PO is dead. the people who are pushing the current bill keep saying that this is the only chance to do anything in a generation....sounds to me like they don't plan on anything else for another "generation". and frankly I don't expect them to do a damn thing, except talk about it.

Speaking of which, I trust that following passage of reform the kill-billers will be immediately launching their campaign to pass a public option bill, along with additional legislation to improve the legislation. No?

Bob, they already have. Alan Grayson's Medicare buy-in public option amendment is the public option rising from the dead before it was even "dead" -- again. For the umpteenth time.

How many times has it died and risen? Let's see... After HR 3200, it was assumed to be dead in the Senate bill; it was left out of the Senate Finance committee report; it was reintroduced by Reid only to be killed by Lieberman; it came up in conference discussions and then the reconciliation discussion only to have firebaggers scream at its "death." It died when Obama didn't push it at the seven-hour meeting and it died again with Pelosi only to rise again with Grayson. By my count the public option has died and been raised from the dead SEVEN TIMES.

"the people who are pushing the current bill keep saying that this is the only chance to do anything in a generation."

I am one of these people. However, I and many like me, believe the PO is not dead if we get a bill passed with some reforms. Based on past experience, the success of getting a bill passed will lead to more bills filed. It will also give a framework for making some changes without having to have new legislation.

If no bill is passed then Congress will ignore this issue for a very long time as the political cost of fighting a contentious issue is so high. At least that is what we have seen happen before.

Um...on the House website in the reconciliation bill...starting around page 118...

I dunno...looks like a public option to me.