Michael Moore Won't Let Go

Yesterday, Tommy Christopher noticed the following tweet from Michael Moore about the thoroughly debunked "Obama/DHS is Conspiring to Destory Occupy Wall Street" rumor:

This double tap of OccupyLA & OccupyPhilly by our new militarized police force I’M SURE has NOT been coordinated by anyone in DC. No way!

Michael Moore has lost his shpadoinkle. In spite of the fact that the Naomi Wolf story about Homeland Security conspiring to kill Occupy encampments was debunked by the original source, Rick Ellis, nine days before Wolf wrote her tall tale, Moore continues to cling to Wolf's conspiracy theory.

Christopher writes:

This is the kind of logic-proof statement that makes people ignore everything you say, and frankly, marginalizes the people Moore is supposed to be lending his support to. There are already plenty of other people eager to fill that job.

The idea of a federal crackdown on the Occupy protests has created a minor schism among liberals, with the sane ones pointing and laughing at the likes of Moore and Naomi Wolf.

I have no problem with people questioning authority, or being skeptical of the “official story,” but you can’t just replace the official story with whatever you can pull out of your ass.


  • Terry Maguire

    FDR once met with a group of activists who sought his support for bold legislation. He listened to their arguments for some time and then said, “You’ve convinced me. Now go out and make me do it.”

    this is what OWS is doing. it has actually started to work.

    (and I apologize for any prior snark)

  • Terry Maguire

    so you all don’t like my posts, so you are against OWS.

    goodbye cesca.

    lesser of two evils? evil of two lessers.

    • nicole


    • villemar

      Lol. No luck finding that corroboration, huh.

      • Terry Maguire

        no. i am not a investigative journalist. i have the same information as you. i just don’t find it so obvious.

        • mrbrink

          Ooh. I don’t know.

          villemar has some pretty good information. A sort of clairvoyant authority on bullshit. Don’t let the smiles fool you, amateur political commentators beware.

          • villemar

            Oh pshaw, I just happened to follow this particular story as I’ve been a bit more engaged politically lately (I phase in and out). Thanks though yo! I think Bob really nailed the complete story, in context, on this week’s podcast.

        • villemar

          Terry, seriously you ought to check out this week’s podcast of the show, this whole specific story is really laid out extremely well with a cogent explanantion of when bad information causes more harm than good for Progressivism.

    • mrbrink

      No, I like your posts and I like OWS. I like Michael Moore.

      Talk it out, man. There’s room.

      • Terry Maguire

        thanks. i really am a normal guy, not an “idiot”. I’m sure we all agree about 98% of issues.

        • mrbrink

          To be fair to Nicole, I have no way of knowing whether or not you really are an idiot. I only know we seem to disagree with results.

          I don’t like negative consequences to voter apathy as a result of voter ignorance.

          I like results.

  • Terry Maguire

    last 5 postings on OWS are negative…

    are YOU coordinating with DHS?

    (just kidding, lest you post about how the left is crazy and thinks “cesca is coordinating with DHS”.)

    you and newt agree, OWS is too extreme!

    • nicole

      last 5 postings on OWS are negative…

      Utter bullshit.

      And, please point me to where Bob said that “OWS is too extreme”.

      You can’t.

      • Terry Maguire

        utter bullshit?

        do you think last 5 postings are positive? look at the last 5 postings on OWS. they all have negative things to say about movement. Cesca is spending his energy on OWS to nitpick them. no stories on recent evictions, abuses, just “off its rails”. Um, do you think that our economy is “off its rails”? do you think the democratic party wants to empower the “little guy”? really?

        and I was not quoting cesca! i was expressing my reading of his opinions. don’t give that spin BS, where you say “Aha!! he can’t find exact quote!”. well i never said there was a “quote”. i don’t even think gengrich said “OWS is too extreme,” but we all know that is his sentiment based on comments.

        he is for OWS, but spends last 5 mentions of movement detailing negative details or flaws.

        • nicole

          1. The last 5 postings on OWS were not all negative, and not one OWS posting by Bob is intended to be anti-OWS.

          2. You did not “express your reading of his opinion”, you put words in his mouth, and I quote you: “you and newt agree, OWS is too extreme!

          3. You have a lot to learn.

          • Terry Maguire

            1. last 5 postings all detail problems w/ ows.

            2. oh, stop. Here is from my post: You and newt agree, OWS is too extreme!

            how on earth is that a “quote”?

            here, i’ll show you “putting words in his mouth”: cesca said: “OWS is too extreme.” see. never said that. did make a snarky comment showing how both newt and cesca have been bitching about OWS.

            3. i know plenty. and I am sure you do, too. lot to learn? what are you doing to help change country? help the 99%? vote?

            why don’t you hold Obama and Democrats to same standards you hold for OWS?

          • mrbrink

            Maybe you should go tell Michael Moore to stop making OWS look foolish.

            I see posts like this as a way to keep OWS out of cyanide bunker-mode.

            OWS is the 99%?

            What’s with the fucking identity crisis?

          • ranger11

            Can I vote OWS out of office? I wish I can. They don’t speak for me that’s for sure. Guess I’m part of the 1%.

          • mrbrink

            Better yet, can we vote Michael Moore, or anyone else in or out of OWS?

            No? That’s undemocratic.

            And I won’t fully support a full-time movement that does not make it their full-time job to overthrow the GOP– first and foremost.

            I guess I’m an unwavering partisan that way.

            I’m not dumb enough to not pick sides and have plenty of reasons why. Saying, inferring, protesting “both sides” is like saying both sides give aid and comfort to big oil, or the Koch brothers, and it’s a goddamn coward’s lie.

      • Clancy

        Three of Bob’s last five posts on OWS have been on this very issue. According to Terry, pointing out that there is absolutely no proof (yet) as to DHS coordination = negative coverage of OWS. This post isn’t even about OWS, really, but about MM’s pulling shit out of his ass and calling it truth. According to MM and Terry, the burden of proof is on those who simply ask that maybe these assertions should be supported by, you know, proof.

  • Terry Maguire

    Let me get this straight…

    this blog and the letter writers are AGAINST occupy wall street?!?!

    you think if Obama is elected then all is well?

    occupy wall street is us.

    obama, congress, senate, corporate america? they are not our friends. they are our rulers.

  • drsquid

    What was said on twitter? Oh yes, Michael Moore is becoming the Orly Taitz of the left.

  • Terry Maguire

    why your desperate denial that DHS assisted mayors in how to deal with occupy encampments. First, just because the AP doesn’t include that detail, doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. imagine it is a secret. don’t tell the AP.

    no absolute proof, does not equal DON’T SAY A WORD.

    hey, i am an obama supporter, but if you don’t think the Obama Admin, like bush, reagan, clinton and carter, is not looking out for the 1%, then I don’t know what to tell you about your delusions.

    you have to do better than, the AP didn’t c0oroborate it! it is one thing to say, hey y’all there is no PROOF. versus. “this is outrageous, our beloved leader would never be mean to us little folks”

    you sound like a tool for the 1%. Obama is better than McCain or Romney, but HE REPRESENTS THE RICHEST HUMANS ON EARTH.
    Dems and Repubs the same? NO WAY.

    both fighting for the rich and against the poor and middle class? YES YES YES. and you know it.

    • villemar

      Still no sources besides Rick Ellis at the Examiner, all this time later?

    • schemata

      Where’s Moore’s proof? You know, moore is a millionaire too, right?

      • Terry Maguire

        he is. do YOU think he is fighting for the 1% or 99%?

        • villemar

          Still waiting for corroboration on that Rick Ellis story, by the way.

        • schemata

          I think he is fighting for Michael Moore.

  • reginahny

    Best use of schpadoinkle in… — who knows how long? possibly evah? MM needs to stop.

  • Rev Magdalen

    The schism over the Wolf conspiracy theory stems from the fact that people like Moore encouraged the Occupiers to believe a myth which is now fiercely defended as a truth by almost all Occupy supporters that I’ve talked to: the idea that the 1st Amendment “is their permit,” and gives them a right to assemble anywhere they choose for as long as they choose, “trumping” local law.

    Most people learned about “time, place and manner” restrictions in elementary school, but Occupiers believe these restrictions, upheld by dozens of SCOTUS cases over the centuries, are unconstitutional. They believe all parade and rally permit regulations are illegal, and everyone should be free to assemble and camp wherever they want, whenever they want, for as long as they want because the Supreme Court got this wrong this whole time.

    Because Occupiers believe this myth, to them anyone trying to remove one of their camps is violating their constitutional rights, obviously out of an attempt to silence them. The fact that mayors have always offered Occupiers an alternative place to actually speak their message just doesn’t count, because of the perceived rights violation.

    Joshua Holland at Alternet tried to point out that law enforcement agencies share best practices all the time, and that nothing would be weird or wrong about a mayor asking DHS what the latest strategies are for dealing with large crowds. His readers overwhelmingly didn’t get it. To them, DHS advising on best practices is just as bad as DHS ordering the evictions at the behest of a guilty Congress. Anyone who participated in any way in breaking up a camp is equally seen as a “rights violator” trying to silence OWS.

    This myth didn’t just spring up over time. Occupiers were openly stating their belief in the unconstitutionality of permit regulations on the very first day. Some influential people jumped on board to promote OWS without ever correcting this fundamental mistake in Occupier thinking. Now they’re reaping the consequences. Turns out if you encourage people to believe something you know isn’t true, they may come to be seen as bizarre conspiracy theorists that end up embarrassing everyone on that side of the aisle.

    • villemar

      They seem to forget that local law enforcement and civil servants are also part of the 99%.

  • Scopedog

    Sad to know that Moore still pimps this lie.

    But to be brutally honest, people still believe that what’s contained in THE PROTOCOLS OF THE ELDERS OF ZION is true, even though that POS has been debunked time and time again.

    • Bob Rutledge

      LFT (Liked For Truth)

    • jjasonham

      That made me choke my apricot!

  • mikecz

    He preys on liberals or anyone close to his cause that will believe anything, makes documentary’s directed at such, and has created a lot of wealth based on this complete pile of rhetoric.

  • Clancy

    Moore’s always had a tough time with distinguishing between correlation and causality. Or, he has difficulty conveying complicated causality, so he simplifies the hell out of it, effectively dumbing it down to where it’s almost laughable. His films, while powerful, are full of supposition/slight of hand whenever it comes to answering the “why” of the matter. Mostly, Moore is just throwing crap against the wall hoping something will stick. Often, when Moore is one of the few progressive voices that can be heard above the din of corporate media apologia, we accept/support his wild assertions because we realize that this is one of the few ways that (at least part of) our point of view will get heard.

    The problem with Moore and others focusing on the crackdowns and other conflicts with the police rather than what it is that is motivating OWS is that they are sucking the oxygen out of the room, effectively suffocating the movement at its core. Once this becomes (primarily) a physical conflict with police in particular and authority in general, they will lose any hope of succeeding. What they are battling is already evil enough in reality, they don’t need to start making shit up about it/them to win the people over.

    • maggy

      I have decided the Moore is just not very smart….his simple minded rhetoric lost me long ago.