Immigration John McCain LGBT Open Thread Religion Supreme Court



Artist – David Fitzsimmons

In other news, at a town hall meeting held yesterday in Arizona, Senator John McCain said he won’t stop calling them “illegal immigrants” even if you find that to be an offensive term.

“Someone who crosses our borders illegally is here illegally. You can call it whatever you want to, but it’s illegal. I think there’s a big difference between someone who does something that’s illegal and someone who’s undocumented. I’ll continue to call it illegal.”

We don’t have a style book here, but I stopped referring to them as illegal some time ago. I began asking myself what the purpose of using the term illegal was, which in this case comes off as a pejorative, and I came up empty. Even if they are technically here illegally, they are still just immigrants looking for a better life. That’s not something I consider illegal.

  • IrishGrrrl

    See there you go with that subtlety thing again, you and Bob both. It takes a mature person to understand that legality is not necessarily a one to one correlation to morality. Conservatives such as McCain are incapable of understanding that or they pretend thy don’t understand that in their effort to pander. Either way, they’re wrong and unhelpful in the larger debate about what to do with undocumented workers in the U.S.

    • Christopher Foxx

      Refusing to call folks who come to the US in violation of the law “illegal” is playing that same game that conservatives use with “death tax”, “Clear Skies Act” and so many others. Bob has adopted wingnut silliness.

      It takes a mature person to understand that legality is not necessarily a one to one correlation to morality.

      Of course legality and morality are not equivalent. I don’t think one has to be particularly mature to realize that. Unlike morality, which tends to be open for debate, the law is largely more clear cut. And fact is, some folks in this country got here by breaking the law. They are, by definition, here illegally. If the term “illegal immigrant” is becoming too pejorative then reclaim it. Make it the new “gay”. But don’t proudly claim something isn’t what it is. It’s distracting from the real debate which is, as you note, what to do with illegal immigrants.

      • IrishGrrrl

        “It takes a mature person to understand….I don’t think one has to be particularly mature to realize that.”

        There are tons of people in the U.S. that think they are the same thing. Indeed Justice Scalia has been doing it for years by arguing that if we can make murder illegal on moral grounds then we can make homosexuality illegal as well. If a Supreme Court Justice is making this argument, don’t you think a lot of uneducated nitwits are too? I have run into many of them in my life. Absolutist thinkers who believe there is ONLY right and wrong and never anything in between. These kind of people are very much like children and immature in their thinking. I stand behind my assertion.

        “The law is largely more clear cut”

        Ummmm, no it is usually as clear as mud. I have a Bachelors and a Masters in Criminal Justice so I can authoritatively tell you that you’re wrong on this point. Ask an attorney, odds are they will agree with me.

        “They are, by definition, here illegally.”

        I don’t disagree with this statement. But I do think the label of “illegal immigrants” is still wrong and needs to go away. Here’s why. When most Americans hear the word illegal they think of “criminal” and illegal immigrants are not criminals. Illegal immigration is a civil matter. If you get a parking ticket, are you a criminal? Would appreciate being treated as one? Would you like to be called a “law breaker” or an illegal?

        I don’t think Bob is saying lets stop saying it because it’s not true. He’s saying that there is an underlying meaning that is purposefully harmful. And if he had his way it wouldn’t be illegal. If I had my way, it wouldn’t be either.

        Seems to me you’re purposely ignoring Bob’s very clear statement on this. He admits their technically here illegally. It’s technically illegal to buy dildos in several southern states. Should we use the term “illegal masturbation”? Never mind that it’s a stupid law. Being precise and technically correct is so much more important than being fair or even merciful.

        • mrbrink

          Brilliant. I’m glad I scrolled back.

          • IrishGrrrl

            Thankee sir

  • Victor_the_Crab

    By definition then, the Pilgrims arriving on Plymouth Rock in 1620 would be considered the first illegal immigrants.

    • Christopher Foxx

      No, because there weren’t any laws about immigration at that time for them to break. If you want to make a silly point, you’d have to say they were invaders.

      • Victor_the_Crab

        Gee, thanks for the anal retentive point you made, Captain Asswipe. Do you enjoy going to parties just to kill the mood with your natural douchiness?

        • Christopher Foxx

          Sorry, Victor. Shame on me for forgetting we’re commenting on the Intertubes. I guess instead of just disagreeing with you and stating why, I should have instead just called you an obviously ignorant dickhead who really should come up out of mommy’s basement sometime.

          There. Did I cover all the bases, That’s how it’s supposed to be done, right?

          • Victor_the_Crab

            Drop your fucking attitude, you piece of shit. Ever since you’ve joined this little group of ours, a couple of months ago, you’ve been feeling the need to act like this pretentious douchenozzle who acts superior to the rest of us and tries to correct us when we don’t measure up to your “high standards”, whatever the fuck that is. We’re here for catharsis from ignorance and stupidity that the right inflicts upon us on a regular basis. If you can’t accept that, then go somewhere’s else where you can feel a kinship to likeminded people. Like the parasites that live inside you colon when you keep your head up your ass.