Ethics LGBT

Land of Liberty. Or Maybe Not.

via ThinkProgress

Russia has officially outlawed all forms of protest for more than two months around the 2014 Winter Olympics, which begin in less than six months in Sochi. President Vladimir Putin signed an official decree, published in the official government newspaper, that will ban all “gatherings, rallies, demonstrations, marches, and pickets” that aren’t a part of Olympic ceremonies from January 7, a month before the Olympics begin, until March 21, a month and a half after they end.

The protest ban’s most obvious effect will be to silence criticism on the Russian anti-gay law that bans “homosexual propaganda.”

This obviously makes Russia the ideal destination for someone who claims to be fleeing the tyranny of the United States.

  • 1933john

    Some Russians like their tea.

  • blackdaug

    Any fans of Doomed Airships around here?:

    “Flimagrant Song”

    He fled to the land of ice and snow, where leakers leak
    but teh gays can’t show….
    Hammer of the Paul’s, his thumb drives seek new lands…
    To fight the bored, he sings and whines
    Valhalla knows he’s…ing…ing
    All his secrets..are spilling out
    His only goal to see the Keynan out!
    He fled to the land of the ice and snow, from the Oahu
    sun and the girl on a pole….
    How loud your flackster Green, inflames the hair galore
    Oh how his tales…. did slip and slide
    Who are your overlords…?
    All his secrets, are spilling out…
    His only goal to see the Kenyan out!
    So now they better stop, and rebuild all their ruins..
    Their leaks and spin can’t win the day
    Despite the twitter bruising……

  • Bill Lenner

    Gee, I wonder if Greenwald and Miranda will be going to the Olympics to join their buddy Ed in his newly found land of freedom.

  • Mike Huben

    I’m sure Ashby would have mocked those fleeing religious persecution by coming to the North American colonies. He would have said how foolish they were to go where one of the largest genocides and thefts of property in history was taking place.

    • JMAshby

      Congratulations, that was the dumbest comment I’ve read all week.

      Thanks for participating Mike Huben, self-described relativist.

      • Mike Huben

        Aw, did that sting? Poor widdle feller.

        However, I notice that you have no substantive response to the obvious point that moving from a place where you are a target to another place where you are not is just plain sensible, even if the other place isn’t your favorite.

        What’s really stupid here is your continual ranting against enemies.

        • Kitty Smith

          No, you’re just a moron.

        • missliberties

          The only enemy is any encroachment on individual liberty right sweets?

          It’s not Putins fault that a grassroots movement rose up like a brush fire in Russia with a religious fervor to protect solid christian traditions by outlawing homosexuality.

        • 1933john

          “Target”, WTF are you typing about?

          • blackdaug

            Um…sorry, I stepped out for the weekend here…but let me get this straight.
            Is Ben Dover up there really comparing Snowden’s tribulations to the pilgrims fleeing Europe from religious persecution?
            So I guess comparing him to MLK, Gandhi and Jesus just wasn’t quite revealing the scope of his ordeal?
            I may not favor banning trolls for being anonymous…but there really should be some kind of cut off level for stupid….
            Mike Youben a moron….

        • nicole

          The only “stupid here” is you, my dear, out-of-your-league garden variety idiot.


        • Victor_the_Crab

          Keep dreaming in technicolor, dumbass.

        • nathkatun7

          There is no need to respond to a plainly stupid comment.

    • Claude Weaver

      So, are you saying Snowden’s arrival led to the anti-homosexual propaganda ban? Because your comparison kinda says that.

      Who knows? Maybe Putin doesn’t want to put up with Greenwald getting in the way of his new friendship, and he prevented it the only way a subtle, not-at-all-menacing leader like Putin can.

    • dbtheonly

      Your timing is rather off.

      Unless you want to argue that the Indian Wars ran from, say, 1630 to 1890.

      Most immigrants to America were fleeing the local military draft or seeking economic opportunity. Religious freedom was a factor only in the very early British settlements. If I had to pick, I’d end the religious aspect of immigration at 1689 at the latest.

      Your argument also only applies to British settlements. Absolutely no one who settled in Spanish America came for religious freedom & the Spaniards proved adept at slaughtering the natives as well.

      Then, just for it, please name me one country where outside settlement did not prove painful for the indigenous population. Examples otherwise range from Normans making life tough on Saxons through Zulus making life tough for Hottentots through Mongols making life tough on Han.

      • Mike Huben

        Yes, the Indian Wars started that early. Wikipedia says: “The first major war in New England was the Pequot War of 1637.” There were lots of smaller actions before that. And the Jamestown Massacre of 1622.

        My argument is not about religious freedom: it is about escaping punishment or persecution by moving to a less desirable country. It made sense for the Pilgrims: the JMAshby’s of that time would have scorned them for their blasphemy and for mocked them for their movement into still further difficulties.

        But at least you’re attempting to address my point, unlike the claque that considers Greenwald and Snowden enemies.

        • inversion

          Nitpick time

          as for the ‘escaping punishment or persecution’ meme, the Georgia Colony was a lot rougher considering that it served as a safety buffer for the Carolinas against Spanish Florida incursions.

          please define this persecution thing as it relates to Snowden in relation to the English colonists, i am somewhat interested.

    • inversion


      this is for you

      and this is for you

      now one of the things that you have to remember about the first link is that even though they had an issue with England; there were those who fled religious persecution and promptly did what was done to them.

      one of those states was Maryland.

      now the genocide and property theft is true, that’s undeniable.however what strikes me as curious is that you are using an example that shouldnt be used in regards to defending Snowden

    • inversion

      by the way, i wouldnt blast over the Pilgrims. please remember that they were in Holland, before they came to North America.

      there were however a list of reasons why they left Holland.

      remember that in three years or so, as it relates to Snowden.

    • Badgerite

      Interesting fact: ‘those fleeing religious persecution by coming to the North American colonies’ and their subsequent progeny as well as later immigrants WERE the ones who eventually engaged in the genocides and thefts of property you refer to. You don’t even seem to be aware of the basic chronology of US history or colonization.

  • intoxination

    Now this just gave me an interesting thought. Will Glenn ever go to Russia to visit Snowden? Seems like he has a real dilemma there.

    • Richard_thunderbay

      Forget visiting, will that “champion of civil liberties” ever write anything critical about the Russian regime?

      • missliberties

        Since democracy is so messy it is easier just to go with the benevolent dictator.

      • FlipYrWhig

        It really is incredible that someone who is (1) gay, (2) an avowed civil libertarian, (3) possessed of a media platform that gets massive attention, (4) friends with the most famous traveler to Russia since Lee Harvey Oswald, has had so little to say about a Russian homophobic clampdown. Has he said anything at all?

    • Victor_the_Crab

      This would be the conversation Greenwald would have with his partner David Miranda about visiting Snowden in Russia:

      GG: David?
      DM: Yes Glenn?
      GG: Wanna go to Russia sometime?
      DM: Hmmm, lemme think, FUCK NO!!!!!
      GG: Me neither. Wanna go out for tapas?
      DM: Sure.

      And somewheres in a dingy shithole of a Moscow apartment, Eddie Snowden is typing an email to GG and DM, saying:

      Guys, it’s me, Ed. Can you reply to me soon? This place sucks huge and isn’t the beacon of freedom and liberty I thought it was. Plus there’s some large, scary looking men that are eyeing me in a very bad way. Please get back to me, ASAP.


    • Broadway Carl

      No. He’ll just send his partner to try and continue to get information. If is partner is delayed by officials he cries wolf. If his partner is not detained, he gets his info. It’s a win/win.

  • D_C_Wilson

    Hey, remember when Bush said he “looked into Putin’s soul” and saw that he was committed to freedom and democracy?

    Good times.

    • Victor_the_Crab

      I think he confused Putin’s soul with a 7-Eleven breakfast burrito.

      • Felonious Grammar

        A spleen burrito.

  • Richard_thunderbay

    The Guardian’s Russia page makes no mention of that story…

    But they do have a story with this title: “As a Democrat, I am disgusted with President Obama” on their sidebar.

    • i_a_c

      Did you read the comments on that article? I’ve never wandered into The Guardian‘s comment section and I doubt I ever will again. That place might be the epicenter of “extreme left meets extreme right.” Yeah, he’s as bad as Nixon. Whatthefuckever.

      • DHaradaStone

        I went there and looked. Another lame Nixon comparison. So where is the story about Obama using the CIA, NSA or the IRS (other than the bogus 501(c)(4) non-scandal) to harass political opponents or stifle dissent? The only people prosecuted under Obama have been those who have broken the law by spilling classified docs. Still waiting for the big story about Obama’s spooks listening in on innocent Americans’ phone call or perusing the emails of Occupy protesters or Tea Party activists.

        • Churchlady320

          It is my understanding that the prosecutions were started under Bush and the government has an obligation to carry them out, like it or not. We have the best ‘whistleblower’ protections of any nation, but we do not protect people doing incredibly stupid things such as espionage and data theft. The IRS did nothing wrong vetting ALL groups seeking a c-4 tax exemption. That is their job. And I know of no case in which anyone has been harassed at all. The c-4 applications still pending for conservatives have been highly flawed requiring MUCH more info. My organization has both a c-3 and c-4 and jumped through ALL those hoops to get each designation. It’s the LAW.

    • missliberties

      Just for you. It’s unloced for a day and a few hours more.

      Still needs verification, but did Greenwald really sit on a panel hosted by the Southern Avenger?

      I don’t think even Putin was ready for this kind of bad azz crazy.

      • js hooper

        UNBELIEVABLE !!!

        Greenwald went on a libertarian “Rock the Mic” tour with OPENLY RACIST RIGHT WINGERS….The Southern Avenger (Jack Hunter) and some other freak named Hornberger who said this shit.

        “Despite slavery and other infringements of individual freedom, Americans in the 1800s lived in the freest society in history…..This is what it once meant to be an American. This is what it once meant to be free.”

        • missliberties

          I just wonder if most liberals that offer such blind support to Glenn Greenwald even have a clue, as to where Glenn Greenwald is coming from. Greenwald hates progressives and their attempts at social engineering.

          I do note I haven’t heard one peep from him about the police state in Russia that imprisons even the mention of the homosexual lifestyle.

          • js hooper

            I get the feeling that Greenwald could have written Ron Paul’s racist newsletter and had his name / picture in the byline and there would still be people out there trying to defend him as a progressive hero.

            This dude is DEEPLY entrenched in the right wing libertarian culture and yet is allowed to masquerade as a liberal.

            I don’t know WTF is going on in the Professional Left when they allow stormfront / Info Wars Paultards to represent the progressive movement.

          • missliberties

            It’s pretty simple. The left has been duped by sweet talking Paulbots.

          • Badgerite

            This must be why they keep insisting that we not focus on the actions and politics of Greenwald and Snowden. Like the fact that they are right wing libertarian nuts and that Snowden is now taking asylum in the Soviet—, oh I’m sorry I misspoke , in Russia and calls it a great champion of freedom in the world. To do so rather undercuts the story that this is all about saving the Republic from the tyranny of the right. It seems to me that they are fine with the tyranny of the right or whatever Russia is these days. Or the left, for that matter, since Cuba would have been just fine with Snowden as a haven as well.. God, the left can be so friggin’ gullible sometimes.

            What’s more, Cesca’s take on this is exactly right. Powers that be in the intelligence community see this NSA program as a valuable tool that America will need in the future to defend itself. And lest anyone throw the Ben Franklin quote at me again let me remind them that Ben Franklin lived in a time when it took a flotilla of ships and an army to assault Washington, D.C. and set the White House ablaze. Now it has been shown that that could actually be done by a couple of guys with plane tickets, box cutters, and an unsuspecting public. Times change and the needs of the country change with them. So, who can say that these people are wrong. Certainly, they believe they are right in their efforts to perfect and maintain something akin to an early warning system for large scale terror attacks. And since they believe this, they will find a way to keep it going. Out of the public eye, if they have to. Illegally and without oversight, as was done during the Bush administration. That being the case, Bob Cesca is right to take the attitude that what the left should want is more of a say in privacy protections and oversight. Better oversight should be the goal. Better privacy protections. Not hero worship and moral pontificating.

        • missliberties

          The words of MLK’s freedom agenda have been co-opted by libertarians, which is why they claim Snowden as a new civil rights leader.

          That is what Greenwald believes he is speaking to, when demands confederate rights are first rights and his proclamations the progressives are stupid.

        • Felonious Grammar

          It was so free that the federal government was giving free land, using the military to remove previous occupants, and subsidizing the railroad industry.