Economy

Don't Let Them Lie to You About the Deficit

FACT: the Republicans are responsible for the deficit. Proof:

Boehner and Cantor, along with Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) and House Budget Chairman Paul Ryan (R-WI) have all voted for some of the biggest contributors to the debt — the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, the Bush tax cuts, and President Bush’s Medicare prescription drug plan — which helped to double the debt over the past decade

The chart:



Businessweek adds
:

Together, a Bloomberg News analysis shows, these initiatives added $3.4 trillion to the nation’s accumulated debt and to its current annual budget deficit of $1.5 trillion. [...]

“There’s plenty of blame to go around,” for the debt, said Robert Bixby, executive director of the Concord Coalition, an Arlington, Virginia-based group that advocates for balanced budgets. “If there had been no Barack Obama, we would still be bumping up against the debt limit.’”

Anyone who says this is "Obama's spending" and "Obama's debt" is lying. Plain and simple. They're lying to you.

  • If not for the Senate GOP caucus’s unprecedented and egregious use of the filibuster, I believe that nearly all of the goals progressives hold dear would have been enacted by now…

  • POLITICALPARTYPOOPER

    I left this comment on an earlier post, and then noticed that the post was a day old. So, I decided to add it to this thread. “They are lying to you”. So are the Democrats, about too many things to list, but as you’ll see, I tried to list quite a few in the comment. When a party accuses another of lying, it always helps if that first party is not itself lying. Why haven’t we raised taxes on corporate America in the last three years? Why did we allow the Bush tax cuts to be extended? Because our President and the Democratic party lied to us, telling us that raising taxes on corporate America during a recession was bad economic policy. A lie. A bald faced lie, no less. But Democrats are different. Right.

    ” “The Reid plan “makes no changes to the biggest drivers of our deficit and our debt and that would be entitlement programs,” Boehner said at a late afternoon press conference,”

    Nice.

    He’s wrong, and, at the risk of setting Jm Ashby off, I’ll say it anyway; the biggest driver of our debt, and of our trust deficit is the two parties. And unlike most of you here, I do not think we can continue to borrow at this pace.

    Maybe you guys will convince me that your side is different when you finally stop parroting Republican talking points about entitlements. For example, by the time I retire, I’ll have paid well over $400k (possibly over $500k, economy dependent) into Social Security. Somehow, this is defined as an entitlement…by BOTH parties. Try again. Maybe it’s just that you have no grasp of what words mean, but you should have learned long ago by the conservative hack named Frank Luntz that WORDS MATTER, and how you use them in perspective matters even more. It’s ALL about how your message is perceived, and independents are having a hard time distinguishing your words and actions from Republicans. An example of an entitlement is a Congressional or Presidential pension. In the private sector, temporary employees don’t get benefits. Why do our elected officials treat themselves differently?

    Reid’s proposal to cut spending and kick the can down the road on tax hikes is another example. Of course, you all believe that ending the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy is a slam dunk AFTER Obama is re-elected, and the Dems hold serve in the Senate. Where have I heard that before? Oh yes, I heard that three years ago, when it was a slam dunk that those tax cuts would be allowed to expire naturally after Obama was elected, and the Dems OWNED a super-majority. Only, wait…that didn’t happen.

    Tell me, please, why do you believe that your party will suddenly get some balls after the 2012 elections when they refused to use their balls while they had a super majority in BOTH houses? A SUPER M A J O R I T Y!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The whining cry then was…but, but, but, the Republicans own a super minority! There’s no way we can get this done! And, you just don’t raise taxes on corporate America and the wealthy in the midst of the greatest financial crisis since 1982…ahem…1933.

    Mind you, the idea that raising taxes on Corporate America and the wealthy in the midst of this depression is a bad idea was not ONLY being bandied about by Republicans. Obama himself has said it repeatedly, and recently. Throughout these negotiations, Obama has repeated words that Reagan used, but has refused to mimic Reagan’s actions. Reagan, as ALL of you are well aware, raised taxes on Corporate America in the midst of the greatest economic crisis since the Great Depression, and IT WORKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Some of you know why it worked. I’ll explain it as briefly as I can, from the perspective of a business owner, for those of you who don’t. When Federal corporate taxes are high, I REPORT LESS PROFIT. Yes, I actually control that. It’s called making use of the deductions for Capital expenditures, spending my “profit” on my business and my employees rather than reporting it as net profit. The end result is that instead of keeping more profit, I’m actually putting it back into the economy. When Wall Street is involved, net profits tend to circulate amongst the hands of a very few elite, wealthy individuals. You don’t need me to tell you that…Warren Buffet has said it so many times that it’s hard to believe ANYONE would trust Republicans or Democrats when they repeat that raising taxes on corporate America is a bad idea in a recession.

    A CORPORATION HAS NO NEED WHATSOEVER FOR A SAVINGS ACCOUNT. Is that plain enough? From 1945 until 1970, America thrived on high corporate tax rates, and if you are willing to understand why, it’s because assholes like me won’t give Uncle Sam one red penny more in taxes that is absolutely necessary. Where does my profit go when I spend it instead of reporting it?

    If you need me to tell you that, you are beyond hope. Downward tax pressure on business in a recession is NECESSARY! The private sector is the the anti-solution to any recession. In order to get the private sector to spend the money it is hoarding during times like this, you have to make tax consequences so heinous that the only alternative left to the private sector is to spend profit before 70% of it is wasted in Washington on the two political parties who spend money like teenage girls in a candy store.

    Now, I’ll bet you’ve NEVER heard a Democrat say something like that.

    It’s the truth, but Democrats, like Republicans, won’t tell you you the truth, or they’d have to hand 90% of their campaign donations back to their sugar mama’s.

    You don’t have representatives in Washington. You have two people in Washington making ALL of the policy; a Democrat, and a Republican, nameless as they may be, they are both wholly owned by special interests.

    Democrats are different? Only in name. In actual policy, they cater to their special interests JUST LIKE REPUBLICANS. They even parrot Republican talking points. “Raising taxes on Corporate America in a recession is bad economic policy”. Never mind that this is a bald faced lie, or just plain ignorance. If you wanted to be different, to distinguish yourselves from Republicans, wouldn’t you make every effort to be so obviously?

    I’ll give you Democrats this: In words, you ARE different. But words are wind. I have watched since 1989 as both republicans and Democrats have handed American jobs and wealth to foreigners time after time, through their idiotic Free Trade agreements, telling us that these agreements will be good for American workers. We have three Free Trade agreements coming up for a vote this year, and the mantra from BOTH parties, including our saintly President is that these agreements will be good for the American worker.

    As if twenty-two years of evidence completely to the contrary isn’t enough to convince these geniuses that, hey, maybe we ought to re-think our stance on these free trade agreements.

    Democrats are different? Maybe when your party stops giving away American jobs and American wealth to FOREIGNERS, I’ll stop calling them what they have PROVEN themselves to be the equivalent of Republicans in every way; TRAITORS. That’s what you call people who give American ingenuity, wealth, and jobs away to nations not called the United States of America, while stealing jobs from TAXPAYERS.

    Sorry for the long rant, but this may be the last chance I get to do so before the morons in Washington incite the rest of America to march on them and lynch anyone with an R or a D after their name. This is what happens when ideology reigns. What you are seeing in Washington is not an aberration. It’s the natural tendency of political parties. As long as any of you have known me, you have known me to believe this, and I have not been silent about it.”

    • PPP- I couldn’t agree more. It doesn’t matter whether you crap blue or red…politician cater to contributors not to constituents. Sure, constituents vote but contributors make your campaign possible. And with no campaign, you get no votes.

      I do have one problem with your tax-until-it-hurts notion: there are alternatives to taxes for spending EBITDA, like investments in the BRIC countries where GDP is growing 7 to 10 percent per year. If I had a dollar and I was either going to give half of it to the U.S. treasury and get nothing for it but a taxpayer receipt from Obama or invest all of it in a factory in China, I think I’m going with the factory in China. Yet, we build in China because labor is cheaper there. Land, buildings, robotics they all cost about the same there as they do here. But could Americans be convinced to spend a little more on products or services Made in the USA? Or could we place a tax on the billions in foreign goods made in factories that have displaced American workers? Prices don’t have to be at parity, just close. In the 80’s the U.S. semiconductor industry, known then as the bastion of free-enterprise, asked the U.S. government to intervene in what they called the “dumping” of low-cost memory chips from Japan into the U.S. market. The industry showed that the lowest price anyone in the world could pay for a Japanese DRAM was in the U.S. How much of that is true today? How many jobs have been displaced by predatory pricing practices by China or India? Predatory practices foisted on Americans is by no means unique to foreign goods. The U.S. mortgage melt-down and subsequent CFPB and much of our healthcare regulation exists to keep banks and doctors or hospitals from preying on Americans. We are easy prey. As you point out in all of our free-trade agreements. Those agreements don’t work both ways. We haven’t had a trade surplus in what, 40 years?

      We as Americans have to take our country back. But we need more than just a political revolution. We can’t just take our country back and hand it to the next toothy smile with a hearty handshake in line. American’s need to invest in their country…and I don’t mean monetarily, I mean intellectually. Obama and Boehner can talk to us like they do because we don’t know no betta. We want the Cliffs Notes, the bottom-line, the path of least resistance. Asian students are overtaking us Americans within our own schools; from high school through college. Who’s taking math and science? Who’s at the Kumon place in the evenings improving their capacity to excel at the skills the global economy will value the most? What American is saying “I don’t want some lame-ass shovel-ready job.” I want to OWN my business, I want to run the company, I want to be THE MAN. With few exceptions, first generation immigrants are displacing Americans at the highest paying jobs right here in our own country, running our new businesses and many of the old ones. American’s have an “employee” mentality,as do our political leaders. That has to change if we expect Washington to change. Government always steps in where America’s citizens fail to take care of themselves and their own. Why do we have a CFPB? Because WE didn’t do the math, we didn’t read the fine print, we didn’t take the time to understand what the heck we were getting ourselves into. We want individual freedoms, but we expect the government to prop us up every time we falter in the exercise of those freedoms. Judging by the growth of government, it seems we falter quite often.

      • POLITICALPARTYPOOPER

        “But could Americans be convinced to spend a little more on products or services Made in the USA? ”

        That’s the old argument, that things would cost more, or too much, if we returned to mass manufacture in the USA. But it’s a BS argument. Inflation rates didn’t drop rapidly once we began buying “cheaper” foreign products. Electronics remain as expensive today when compared using inflation as they were twenty years ago. It’s not the cost of manufacture that keeps these prices high. It’s the constant R&D and replacement of obsolete product that drives market prices, as well as demand.

        Americans buy for want and for need. When we were the world’s manufacturer, we bought American goods, and no one complained how expensive they were because of high wages. That’s because wages WERE higher, and people could afford to pay the price of what they wanted.

        Free trade has done nothing for the American worker except take his job and give it to a foreigner, and reduce his wage growth opportunity by FORCING him to compete with workers from a nation that are sixty years behind us economically, and 100 years behind us in terms of worker safety.

        Free traders like far right conservatives hate protectionism, yet they are the first to whine when the product they bought from overseas is crap and they have to get customer “service” from a twelve year old who can barely speak English.

        If our government is not here to protect the American citizens ability to earn a decent wage in a free market, then what are we doing here? We send government negotiating teams to South Korea to arrange sweetheart deals for Nike and Apple, while we tell our laid off folk that they have to go back to school for the third time in ten years to learn a new trade that our government will give away to the next country we want a “free trade” agreement with.

        President Obama says he wants to create a new green manufacturing base here in America. It’s a lie. The moment the technology is invented, he’ll be negotiating on behalf of some major contributor to have that green tech manufactured in some third-world country that we just signed a free trade agreement with.

        This is what frustrates me most. Republicans, I can understand them being led around by the nose. They are much more cohesive as a unit, and far more reactionary in their views. But Democrats, who are supposed to be educated and free thinkers; I cannot understand how they are so consistently snowed by the people they vote for.

        One of the basic tenets of the Democratic party is their “dedication” to lifting people out of poverty and into the middle class. This has been one of their main focuses since the sixties. Where are the glowing reports of how many people they have lifted out of poverty?

        Those reports don’t exist. Instead, we have a widening gap, and all of their policies enacted for decades now have only succeeded in deepening poverty, and creating dependent adults by the millions. If I were more cynical, I’d say they did it on purpose, to create a class of people totally dependent upon their party for survival, and thus, a class of people they could always depend upon for votes.

        I do not understand how someone as intelligent and well-meaning as Bob Cesca can consistently defend his party by saying, “hey, at least we’re not as bad as them”.

        There is a reckoning approaching. Throwing more money at our problems is not the solution. Our system of government has been usurped by two political parties hell bent on power. What we see before us today is not the result of lazy American workers, or silly consumers. It might be convenient to blame consumers, but it isn’t accurate. This mess was hand crafted by the Republicans and Democrats, and looky; they are so buried in their stale, obsolete ideology that they can’t move beyond political posturing in the most critical economic crisis our nation has ever faced.

        You can’t buy all of America off with bribes of campaign dollars. But you can buy both parties. You can’t bribe the middle class into taking lower wages, but you can bribe both parties into free trade agreements that accomplish the same thing.

        One side says the other side is using this crisis for political purposes. But a different, more detached perspective sees both sides doing it.

        That’s because political parties do not see entire nations with all of its citizens well-being being at stake. Instead, they see power at stake. They see opportunities to enact more of their “agenda”. And they justify it by saying their agenda is what’s best for the American people.

        I could program a series of robots to govern at least as well as Democrats and republicans have governed over the last fifty years. At any rate, those robots would have been at least as emotionally humane.

        I repeat. You do not have 500-700 representatives in Washington. You have two. You didn’t vote for them. They have written themselves into our Constitution, and are trying now to rewrite the constitution to allow a “super-congress” made up of only these two people, a democrat and a republican, to have the most power in this nation over what they deem to be the most pressing issues.

        Products made in the USA would not cost Americans any more than those made outside of it. The only thing that increased due to Free Trade is Wall Street profit, and political contributions.

        For those of you who are democrats and are educated, do the math, and draw your own conclusions.

        • JMAshby

          Really? “Both sides” again? Do you have any other Shtick?

          I guess if you simply step back and say both sides are the same, it absolves you from having to take a side.

          Fact: We had a budget surplus when Clinton left office. If the Bush Admin never happened, we wouldn’t have a deficit at all right now and the national debt would be at least $5 trillion, or more, less than it is.

          He was a Democrat, in case you forgot.

          We could do the same thing again right now, but the other party, which you seem to think is “the same” is getting in the way of TRUE fiscal responsibility.

          Now go vote Ron Paul and give it a rest.

          The rest of us who aren’t stuck in some never-ending, childish, stick-it-to-the-man, challenge-authority phase of our lives will go forward without you. No one will force you to submit.

          • likala

            He’s been playing that same one note tune for a loooonnnggg time.

            It’s just SSDD.

            BTW, some of us should be so fortunate as to pay that much into SS.

          • POLITICALPARTYPOOPER

            JM,

            I respect that you are an apologist for the Democratic party. What I do not respect is you acting blind to half the truth. President Clinton didn’t balance that budget alone. He had help…from republicans. But that doesn’t fit your agenda of telling half of the truth to snow the rest of the base.

            But since you are so proud of Clinton, how are you feeling about his signature on the Gramm, Leach, Bliley Act? If you are going to credit Clinton for the surplus, you MUST credit him for that little bit genius legislation.

            JM, words are wind. Teh Democrats TALK a good game, but I pay attention to results.

            For example. President Obama, and nearly every Democrat has campaigned on ending off-shore tax havens. For two years they owned the House and Senate with a super majority, yet they ACCOMPLISHED nothing towards this end. Accident? Or did they just put on a good show for their base?

            JM, go to Opensecrets.org, and take a gander at who your Democrats get their money from. I can save you the time. They get it from the same places that Republicans get it.

            Both sides the same? More than you want to admit, and in the most important things, like choosing to represent their special interests rather than their actual constituents, HELL YES! They’re exactly the same as Republicans.

            We can talk about words, or we can talk about deeds. But if you want to talk about deeds, JM, history is not nearly on your side.

        • @PPP. “If I were more cynical, I’d say they did it on purpose, to create a class of people totally dependent upon their party for survival, and thus, a class of people they could always depend upon for votes.”

          Sadly, I am that cynical. For at least 30 years I’ve considered myself and have mostly voted republican. Ideologically, I believe in less government rather than more government. I believe the private-sector is better at running a free-market system than government would be. I altruistically believe that the poor, weak and infirm who don’t have families to help them should be helped by the states, cities and locales where they live, not a behemoth federal government with no close connection with those people or with the communities in which those people live.

          Cynically, I believe the dems have offered no meaningful immigration reform because they depend on many of those immigrants for votes. Cynically, I believe that Obama has alienated the small and medium-size business and the community banks because socialism can only succeed when there is a true proletariat class. which explains his penchant for inciting class warfare. Unlike other recessions in America, small businesses are for the first time not leading the way out. Small business has no access to capital, no REAL incentives to hire (i.e. minimum wage laws and the Affordable Care Act). Unlike large business small companies cannot sell stock, bonds or commercial paper to raise money. The GOP may understand capitalism but they are particularly blind to business formation and innovation. Small businesses and business owners are not large campaign contributors. Republicans fight to keep government regulations from impeding business expansion without recognizing that repealing or extending regulatory action tends to help larger, established businesses at the expense of more flexible, agile small business. But worse, they seem as blind to the march toward socialism in America as Obama thinks we citizen are. While Obama happily congratulates GM on their recovery, they still owe us taxpayers billions. Bernanke favors the 12 largest banks with QE’s 1&2 (and maybe 3), concentrating wealth even further into the largest Wall Street banks who just 3 years ago required nearly a $1T bail-out and are principally responsible for the mortgage and housing mess.

          It’s my opinion that the only epidemic in our country worse than obesity, is ignorance…and I don’t mean of government…I mean us. We cannot throw off those leaders who have brought us to this point if all we’re going to do is hand it to the next toothy smile in line. We need a strong voice, intelligent, large, cohesive and passionately committed to real, long-term and abiding change. I don’t have all the answers but I know many of the reasons…and agree with PPP that BOTH parties have taken the road that best serves them, and not us. But we are now in the age of “crowd-sourcing.” Unlike our forefathers we can convene at Internet Speed whenever and wherever we choose. For now, I leave you with this excerpt called the “right of revolution” clause:

          “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.”