Immigration

Shocker: Mexico Doesn’t Approve of Trump’s Absurd Deportation Plan

JM Ashby
Written by JM Ashby

Not surprisingly, Mexican officials do not approve of Trump's ridiculous, illegal plan to deport non-Mexicans to Mexico.

“It’s a non-starter,” a Mexican official familiar with the situation said, switching to English for emphasis. The rest of the conversation took place in Spanish. “I don’t see a scenario in which Mexico accepts this solely because an executive order from the United States says so.” [...]

“I want to make clear in the most emphatic way possible that the government of Mexico and the Mexican people do not have to accept dispositions that one government wants to unilaterally impose over another,” [Mexican Foreign Minister Luis Videgaray] said.

Unlike Trump and those who serve him, Mexican officials actually have some measure of self-respect.

Secretary of State Rex Tillerson has been dispatched to Mexico to "mend fences," or whatever, but this is clearly a waste of his time. It's not clear to me what Tillerson even does at this point. Ostensibly, he's America's chief diplomat, but he seemingly has no authority and barely even has a direct line to the White House.

There's very little Tillerson can do while Trump and the White House draft policy papers without any input, and Trump himself can easily erase months and even years of diplomatic progress with a single tweet.

Tillerson himself must be wondering what purpose he serves. Even if you accept the premise that he took the job so he could cut deals with Russian business interests, it's possible he won't even be able to do that. Ironically, the Trump regime's cooperation with Russian intelligence during the campaign may be exactly what prevents Tillerson from cutting deals.

  • Badgerite

    You know, it seems to me that Mexico has more to complain about with respect to US/Mexico relations. Where do these America Firsters figure that all of those drug cartels that have ripped parts of Mexico apart and that are responsible for deaths in the hundreds of thousands of civilians in Mexico due to drug gang violence purchase their weaponry. Who do they think supports these drug cartels businesses with the wholly ineffective policies they have pushed for decades in the “War on Drugs”?
    America gets overwhelmingly people who just come here to work and for their children to have better lives. Mexico gets the “bad hombres” and the violence and corruption that comes with the drug cartels and and they weaponry sold to them by US manufacturers. That is actually what “Fast and Furious” was about, after all.
    Tracing the gun traffic from American manufacturers to the drug cartels in Mexico.

  • JMAshby

    I haven’t banned this many obvious right wing trolls in years.

    • Christopher Foxx

      Out of curiosity (and because it’s being discussed on a thread over on standupforamerica.wordpress.com), who did you end up banning?

      • JMAshby

        The guy who has an extensive comment history of conspiracy theories, histrionics, and references to legitimate news reports as “fake news.” Also the obvious racist.

        • winking_skeever

          Well, that sure clears things up. I believe, because of the referenced discussion, Christopher (as well as others) would like to know WHO was banned, not your biased description of someone’s comment history.

          • JMAshby

            My description of his comment history is literal, not biased.

            This space isn’t reserved for you. I don’t give a shit what you’re discussing on some other blog. I don’t owe you anything.

      • winking_skeever

        Christopher. It seems to me that JMAshby’s comment backs up the claim of people being banned. Some people were invited to comment here in a respectful manner, some people commented in a respectful manner, some people were banned, some people commented on another site that they were banned, you refused to believe them and asked for proof.

        JMAshby Mod • 10 hours ago
        I haven’t banned this many obvious right wing trolls in years.
        4 • Reply•Share ›

        There is your proof. Or, as I would say in the real world…….Here is your sign!

  • Godzilla

    Who cares what Mexico thinks or says about OUR border security. That’s our business and none of theirs. Let the wanna be immigrants fix their country and stop bringing their problems here. Enough is enough.

    • Victor the Crab
      • Just A Citizen

        Victor

        I am curious why you think that comment by Godzilla was moronic. Or are you just calling Godzilla a moron for the heck of it?

        • Victor the Crab

          I posted that because fuck the both of you, that’s why. Based on your past comments, you’re a right wing dumbfuck who wants to bumlick Godzilla’s POV. My response to you is what you’re deserving of. You don’t like it? I don’t care.

          • Just A Citizen

            Victor

            That is interesting. I don’t recall ever having made any comments here before today. Curious how you would know what all my “past comments” are. You are correct about me being a “right winger”, however. A very proud Radical Right Wing Liberal.

            Although the reason you think that makes me “dumb” or in need of some bizarre sex act simply escapes me.

            I have no doubts that you do not care. And I expect you wonder why others don’t care about you either. Could have something to do with your attitude towards others. Just guessing.

          • Victor the Crab

            All I did was clicked onto your profile, dumbass. You describing yourself as a right wing liberal is hysterical. That’s an oxymoron if ever there was one (heavy emphasis on the phrase “moron”). Much like the term “compassionate conservative” is hysterical. That does make you clinically dumb in the eyes of many.

            And you’re right. I don’t care what you think. Just as a lot of well thinking people would see you in the same manner. All you manage to do is end up siding yourself among the ignorant shit for brains that become easily dismissible. You end up looking like a laughable fuckface. Enjoy it.

    • Badgerite

      Enough is enough is right. You cannot send illegal immigrants who originate from countries other than Mexico back to Mexico. That would be no different then telling Mexico it had to accept illegal Chinese immigrants and telling Canada it had to accept illegal Mexican immigrants. Can’t be done. Legally.
      So…..you would have to sneak them across the border. Which would be hard if you are planning to put up a 30 foot wall and all.
      USA. USA. USA.

  • Christopher Foxx

    the government of Mexico and the Mexican people do not have to accept dispositions that one government wants to unilaterally impose over another,

    This is obvious to anyone over eight-years-old.

    Yet our current administration thinks they can decree what happens in other countries.

    Says a lot about the people in our current administration and those supporting them.

    • Badgerite

      Bingo.

  • muselet

    8 USC §1231 (b) (1) (C):

    Alternative countries If the government of [the country from which the person traveled to the US] is unwilling to accept the alien into that country’s territory, removal shall be to any of the following countries, as directed by the Attorney General:

    (i) The country of which the alien is a citizen, subject, or national.

    (ii) The country in which the alien was born.

    (iii) The country in which the alien has a residence.

    (iv) A country with a government that will accept the alien into the country’s territory if removal to each country described in a previous clause of this subparagraph is impracticable, inadvisable, or impossible.

    I am not a lawyer and I don’t play one on TV, but I read that as saying the US can’t force Mexico to accept non-Mexican deportees. And I can find no legal grounds for the government to deport people in advance of removal proceedings.

    It seems to me the Trump administration is on legal thin ice here, at best.

    As ever, any lawyers out there are encouraged to correct my errors.

    –alopecia

    • Badgerite

      No. They can’t. They especially cannot accept those born on American soil as they are American citizens. And Mexico has no obligation to accept refugees from other countries just because they are Latin. Any more than the US could force them to accept illegal Chinese immigrants. Can’t be done.
      Legally.

  • 1SKTrynoskySr1

    Mexico does really not have very much to say about it. Their beloved oligarch of a former President, the ex-padrone in chief, wants to keep that safety valve wide open. God forbid the Mexican people cannot escape a country richer than Saudi Arabia where over 50% of the population live in poverty. It is long past due that that revolution continue. Viva Villa!

    • muselet

      Piss off.

      –alopecia

      • 1SKTrynoskySr1

        More intellectual debate! What do you know about anything?

        • muselet

          I provided a link, Sparky. Read it, then get back to me.

          –alopecia

          • Godzilla

            It isn’t just Mexican’s that are the problem, Skippy. Maybe you should get better research done……SKIPPY!

          • muselet

            1SKTrynoskySr1 was moaning about Mexico and migration from Mexico. The link I provided was on-point.

            –alopecia

        • Christopher Foxx

          More intellectual debate!

          So you think a broad unsupported claim, an ad hominem characterization of someone not in office and a slogan constitute “intellectual debate”?

          And that “What do you know about anything?” while steadfastly refusing to even read what they linked to is some sort of intellectual response?

          If so, better you stay over at standupforamerica.wordpress.com. The standards are obviously lower and more to your speed there.

        • Scopedog
    • Dread_Pirate_Mathius

      Well, I mean, you are right about one thing: Mexico does not have very much to say about it.

      Much as they’d like to pretend otherwise, Mexico is a wholly owned subsidiary of the United States (much like the Republic of Texas, but less official). If the US says “jump” and pushes hard enough, the answer we’re going to hear back is “¿qué tan alto?”

      • Christopher Foxx

        Nonsense.

      • Godzilla

        I don’t think Trump cares what Mexico thinks, kinda like his opinion of the Liberal media…..which isn’t very good. Good Men Are Needed in government, it’s lacking.

        • Victor the Crab

          Good Men Are Needed in government

          And they wont be found in the Republican party, numbnuts.

      • Badgerite

        You know, the Chinese would like nothing better than to bring Mexico into its economic alliance and sphere of influence. And as a soveriegn state, they do not have to accept those people who are not citizens of Mexico. They are not responsible for the flow of refugees from other Latin American countries or for those people born in the United States and therefore American citizens.

        • Dread_Pirate_Mathius

          1. I completely agree that China would like nothing better than to drive a wedge between us and Mexico. One of the (many) reasons I think a wall is a shitty idea and making them pay for it is even shittier.

          2. As a sovereign state […]. Yea, that’s nice and all, but at the end of the day, we’re their biggest trading partner and wield approximately 9x their GDP. Fair or not, we’ve got the big stick and, if we push hard enough, they’re going to do what we tell them to do. That doesn’t make it right, but it does make it reality. It’s just the cost of being located next door to the most powerful country on Earth. And, no, China is not a substitute for the US.

          3. They are not responsible for the flow of refugees from other Latin American countries. Well…….. I mean, many of these people crossed through Mexico on their way here, no? (I honestly don’t know, but it seems a reasonable thought). If so, Mexico should bear some responibility, no? Something along the lines of deliberate negligence in allowing themselves to be a conduit to illegal immigration to the US? For what it’s worth, I think anyone capable of reaching US soil (who isn’t a known criminal / threat) should be granted immediate full citizenship, but that’s not really what we’re talking about here. And, besides, I don’t get to write US policy.

          4. […] or for those people born in the United States and therefore American citizens. Absolutely right. And, there’s no “responsibility” to be had. These people are legal lawful US citizens by birthright. That’s like saying someone should be “responsible” for that dollar you found on the ground. We should be thanking Mexico for these citizens, not bitching about it.

          • Badgerite

            Actually Mexico is not responsible, legally or otherwise for illegal entry to the US from other countries. As it is, they are expending law enforcement dollars dealing with the drug cartels and the rampant violence that befalls innocent Mexicans. And the weaponry for these cartels comes primarily from American manufacturers. Drug violence in Mexico has killed in the hundreds of thousands of ordinary innocents down there. Americans are not the only ones who suffer from the drug trade. We aren’t even the country that suffers the most from it. I would venture to say that that is Mexico itself. And one could certainly make the case that it is American policy ( see failed War on Drugs) that has aggravated the situation in Mexico.
            As to the economic aspects of the trade relationship between Mexico and the US, I believe the same could be said of the US. We are jeopardizing our economic relations with our 4th largest trading partner. It is a two way street in terms of economic blow back.
            And I’m think in the end, national pride might win out. Consequences be damned. I don’t think that can be ruled out.

          • Dread_Pirate_Mathius

            Actually Mexico is not responsible, legally or otherwise for illegal entry to the US from other countries.

            Legally, I agree. But “otherwise,” how does that make sense? If someone is throwing rocks at your house, and they’re doing it by crossing my property, and I have clearly failed to take the necessary steps to prevent it, am I not at least partially culpable?

            Now, again, I want to be clear, I don’t have a problem with illegal immigration (except that we’ve made it a crime when we should be welcoming the people with open arms). But, insofar as it is illegal – and it is – Mexico is, at the least, willfully negligent if not complicit.

            Everything you just said about the war on drugs

            Total agreement, though Colombia might have a better claim to the title of “biggest victim.” Regardless, it’s certainly not us, and we are certainly to blame.

            As to the economic aspects of the trade relationship between Mexico and the US, I believe the same could be said of the US. We are jeopardizing our economic relations with our 4th largest trading partner.

            YUPP!

            Yet another reason this is stupid.

            But at the end of the day, screwing up our 4th largest relationship is bad (very) for us, but it’s catastrophic for them. If push comes to shove (and with Trump, I don’t doubt it will, because he’s a bully), they’ll have to back down. They just have to. Without a functioning cross border trade, their economy collapses into rubble within a week and Mexico turns into Somalia (and then even I would want that border wall in place).

            And I’m think in the end, national pride might win out. Consequences be damned. I don’t think that can be ruled out.

            Maybe, but the US has a big ego and Trump has an even bigger one. So “our” pride is going to keep pushing. The question is how and how-hard Mexico balks.

            But at the end of the day, I doubt Trump would bat an eye at invading Mexico (and America does have a precedent for this) to impose foreign policy by force. I think the government of Mexico is aware of this. And they are aware our military is dramatically bigger, our GDP is dramatically bigger, our dependence on them is (while still significant) dramatically less, and our population is dramatically larger. Simply but, it’s a battle of wills where one side holds all the cards. Fair it ain’t, but that’s reality. Mexico has no “trump” card to play here. If the Trump administration decides to be assholes (and they probably will), Mexico has no out.

            And if they decide to opt for “national pride” instead of just taking the loss, well, that doesn’t end well for them either.

            Jesus, I wish the fucking Republicans hadn’t put us in this position… but here we are!

          • Badgerite

            About the “invading” thing. I don’t really think so. That would just make the US responsible for all of Mexico. As it is, the US will be on the line for a stupid construction project that will do nothing but stop migratory animals. The cost of an invasion and occupation to accomplish what?
            Making Mexico take in what would be “illegals” in their own country is rather preposterous. I realize the US has sunk pretty low and stupid of late. But that low and stupid I believe only trump could sink.

          • Dread_Pirate_Mathius

            About the “invading” thing. I don’t really think so. That would just make the US responsible for all of Mexico.

            There’s a big difference between a full-scale “we own your country now” invasion and a “we’re making a point here” invasion. We’ve done it – to Mexico – before. Just show up with a warship in the harbor. Legal? No. Right? No. But just what is Mexico going to do about it?

            But, who know? Maybe we’ll just annex Mexico – then we’d have just a small border with Guatemala. If he keeps going, he can get just a tiny border in Panama. Then he can build his wall on the cheap!

            Plus it gets rid of all those illegal immigrants since they’re now legal citizens! He’d actually solve the “crisis” he’s been bitching about for the last year. (he just needs to make sure they can’t vote in the next election). 😉

            But that low and stupid I believe only trump could sink.

            Bingo.

    • Badgerite

      In actual fact, a sovereign state does not have to accept any person who is not a citizen. Mexico can claim the same right as the United States is claiming.
      Just because someone is Latin, as in South American, does not make them Mexican. And they can certainly refuse to accept those who are not. Including American citizens of Mexican descent but who were born on American soil. I suggest President Bannon take up the issue with the sovereign states that are involved in some of these cases and not try to dump anyone and everyone on Mexico as they simply have no obligation to take them any more than the US does. That is how law works. You cannot just make up special rules for yourself. You also cannot expect a foreign state to pay for your own construction projects such as a worthless wall. So the “revolution” means that it will be YOU paying for it. And some estimates put the whole wall/deportation gambit and the economic fall out somewhere in the trillions of dollars. So……enjoy.