They don’t use Disqus. I go by Mathius over there. I invite you to take a swing at them the guys over there. It’s a tough place, but it really does force me to think my positions through much better than any echo chamber ever could.

Really, when you consider the issues, particularly that of global warming, where they come up with “better long term outcome” is beyond me.
Al Gore was the politician who brought the issue of global warming into the public debate. I believe he had a lot to do with the Kyoto Treaty that went down the tubes when GW was appointed by the Scalia and company Court to the presidency of the United States. There was an article by one Joe Brewer at the Medium website which pointed out the fact that heat that was absorbed into the ocean in the 1980’s is only now starting to affect the the atmosphere and climatic makeup of the Earth. 94% of global warming initially is absorbed into the oceans. And “just as it takes time for a hot cup of coffee to release heat into the air” the same is true for the oceans. So there is a lag effect that is only now starting to be felt and will continue. A lot of definitive tipping points have already come and gone. So what “long term outcome” are these idiots talking about anyway? The Pentagon has done studies on this and they have predicted massive disruptions world wide. And progressive values do not tend to thrive when the question becomes who do you throw out of the boat to save yourself. Their political theorizing is idiotic and brought us the mess we have today.

“but you can be damned sure the DNC is going to listen better to the far-left now.”

I hope not. The far left have shown themselves to be no more reasonable or non-infantile than the far right. I hope the DNC properly recognizes their better chances lie with utterly rejecting the babies who cry if they don’t get their way, and instead try to explain better to those closer to the center how the Democrats are far better at supporting their interests than the Republicans.

“Yet I spend hours arguing with extreme right-wing conservatives (StandUpForAmerica.Wordpress.co…)”

Under what name? Your Disqus account doesn’t show any comments except to this site for at least the last six months.

“They were willing to suffer badly in order to ensure a better long-term outcome.. isn’t that “typically liberal” thinking?”

No. Inflicting disaster on their fellow citizens so they can get what they want in the end is typical entitled snowflake thinking. If they were truly interested in making progress eventually (as you suggest) then the way to do that, the way it always comes about, is by making steady, incremental progress. It is not by inviting disaster and then expecting everything suddenly reverses itself all at once.

Extreme example to emphasize the point: people in the civil rights movement didn’t say “let’s not protest hope they bring back slavery so that people will see how really bad it is and then they’ll all suddenly pass the Civil Rights Act”. No, they slowly, steadily, relentlessly worked on gradual progress. There were occasional larger steps forward, sure. But they didn’t think the way to success was to burn the house down.

It’s not often you see a commenter start a comment rejecting generalizations and strawmen and then end up putting forth a few of their own. I mean, c’mon, DPM.

“We are the core of the Democratic Party and we are not being served by our party.”

Then you’re far more a Democrat that Sanders. Even after he declared himself in the running for the Democratic nomination he continued to list himself as an Independent. How odd is it that folks might look more favorably toward a lifelong member of their party than toward someone who found it suddenly to his advantage to jump on board so he could make use of their resources?

Not that that was anything new for Sanders.

After calling it “ideologically bankrupt,” Sanders lobbied for admission into the Democratic caucus for practical reasons (getting coveted committee assignments, mustering votes for bills), according to news reports from his first year in Congress. But party leaders wouldn’t let him join as he refused to become a Democrat.

And immediately after the convention he returned to insisting he’s an Independent, not a Democrat.

It’s the goal of the Democratic Party, and the chairperson of the DNC, to ensure a Democrat, an actual one, is elected. An argument could be made that Sanders got far more support from the DNC than he should have.

“Enough of us felt it was more important to send a message than to win. What does that tell you?”

That you started by objecting to the characterization of those on the far left who didn’t vote for Clinton (i.e. against Trump) did so for petty or irrational reasons and ended by declaring that to actually be the case.

Under a post about mass deportations, you’re still screeching about a
non-existent conspiracy during the Democratic primary season.

That’s the problem. We’ve got Trump and the GOP doing the funky chicken–no, scratch that–they are taking s**ts on the Constitution and preparing the @$$rape the country….and some people are still bringing up “But Bernie wuz ROBBED by the evil DNC!!”

I mean…H.A. Goodman is still spewing out how Hillary is still worse than Trump or anyone in Trump’s Administration, including Steve Bannon and Michael Flynn. And don’t even get me started the bullshit tweets from Stein, the Green Party, and too many other @$$holes.

“Better long term outcome”? And how do you figure.

Maybe it’s an offshoot of the underpants gnome meme:

–Beat up on the Dems/Clinton and let Trump win.
–Trump and the GOP destroy progressive programs and achievements.
–??????
–Progressive utopia, the better long term outcome!

…the problem, of course, is that many will not live to see that “better long term outcome”.

I heard this kind of screwy thinking from Naderites after Bush II “won” in 2000. I rejected it then, and I reject it now.

I’m sorry–while I thought what you have written here was quite good, you lost me with the “DNC threw us under the bus” line.

The DNC vs. Bernie nonsense has to f**king stop. No one has offered any real, concrete proof of this except to wave around emails hacked by Russia and squeezed out Wikileaks’ anus.

Just sayin’.

Okay, so let me modify my reply. The far left that voted third party or stayed at home in some cases cut the noses off their face but mostly cut the noses off of everyone else’s face to spite the rest of the left as punishment for a non-existent anti-Bernie conspiracy. I understand what you are saying and I still feel that it’s bullshit (not your reasoning, but theirs). And as for their not having a party that listens to them, what were they doing during the Bush and Obama years? Far too many of them waited until the last minute to become inspired by Bernie and then expected the DNC to kowtow to their last minute demands. Which they really did by including most of their Progressive platform. What they should have done way back under Pres. Bush is build a party from local elections and grow to national ones. But that’s too hard. Better to wait and fuck the rest of us over in a single election. They fucked up and many people are going to suffer. So I have no fucks to give for their “reasons”.